What did I get myself into?? AKvmaniac+loosepassive

[DrGutshot]

MP is a HUGE maniac, he will try to bluff anything
BB is quite loose+quite passive

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed)

Preflop: DrG is SB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP posts a blind of $5.
Button folds, <font color="CC3333">DrG raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP (poster) calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP raises</font>, DrG calls, <font color="CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, MP calls, DrG calls.

Turn: (10 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">MP bets</font>, DrG calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (14 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP checks, <font color="CC3333">DrG bets</font>, BB calls, UTG folds, <font color="CC3333">MP raises</font>, DrG calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 20 BB

[DrGutshot]

forgot bison's messes up the format sometimes - here is the corrected hand.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed)

Preflop: DrG is CO with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, <font color="CC3333">DrG raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, BB (poster) calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, DrG calls, <font color="CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, SB calls, BB calls, DrG calls.

Turn: (10 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, DrG calls, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (14 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">DrG bets</font>, Button calls, SB folds, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, DrG calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 20 BB

[Nemesis]

I have no clue... this hand completely confuses me.... anybody know what to do?&gt;

[RunDownHouse]

I'm still in 1/2 land, but I would raise this turn. He might have caught a flush on you, but I don't think calling gives you anything to work with. If you either get 3bet or just called, you at least have better information at hand.

[J.R.]

If calling the flop is right you should raise the turn (as you are vulnerable to a single spade and might as well get maximum value). If you didn;t feel right raising the turn I don;t get why you bet the river (I suppose you could have feared the button had the flush on the turn but that's not enough to justify riasing the turn IMO, as that risk must have been fairly remote to justify the flop call.

If you dind't think your spade outs were good, you didn't have the odds to draw to 4 non-spade A and K outs and backdoor flush on the flop (even more so becuase A/K outs aren't nut outs, and when you make the best hand on the turn you will still be subject to many redraws). So I fold on the flop with a speculative 5 outer getting 11-2 with the chance of more action behind.

[DrGutshot]

I did not raise the turn because I had seen the button be very aggressive with flush draws on the button before (in fact, the few times he had been aggressive on the flop were when he had a draw). I was ready to fold to a turn raise by the button, but when he flatcalled I was very confused. Because he flatcalled, and the river was a blank, I figured button probably had something like TPTK or TT/JJ on the flop and was trying to protect it, and the maniac had some random pair...so I bet the river figuring I had the best hand. No way am I respecting his river C/R btw.

note: I called the flop hoping to hit a nonspade ace or king, knowing that the maniac will pay me off like a crazyman, and button will call anything...You are right that I did not have odds to draw to the nonspade highcards, and in retrospect folding would have been much safer on this flop. However, it was too tempting to chase w/the maniac in the hand. I didn't realize what I had gotten myself into until the turn.

Maniac turned over 35o for a gutshot the whloeway, and hitting near bottom pair on the river (apparently good enough for him to checkraise)

Button turned over 44 for a flopped set of fours and took it down. Perhaps I was overconfidant in my read that he was only aggressive on the flop with a draw /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Thanks for your replies.
-DrG

-DrG

[DyessMan89]

I think this is an easy lay down on the flop. I always get suckered into crap flops with A,K, only to pair on the turn or river and my opponents takes me for a ride with a set, flush, or straight. Just release the hand on the flop and you wont get in any trouble.

[fyodor]

Yep. I fold this on the flop every time. You save a lot of chips that way. It is way too expensive a draw.

[chio]

fold the flop, don't get sucked into the pot by the maniac

(1) just because he doesn't have anything doesn't mean the other players don't either
(2) he might have something
(3) if by some miracle you are ahead on the flop, you will be drawn out on most of the time with 3 opponents
(4) pot isn't big enough to continue with your tainted outs + backdoor flush draw

given the way you played it, raise the turn