Playing wired pairs

[jaeon]

when i have a wired pair, and the board flops another pair, how should i feel? am i more or less likely to prevail now? i've seen it happen that if i have a smaller wired pair, the board flopping a pair can often void my pair when it ends up pairing up again on the turn or river. so now i'm sorta edgy with any flopped pairs. i know i need to be more wary of opponents flopping trips in these circumstances, but i have this feeling i'm missing some other crucial concept. can anyone enlighten me?

[Francis]

Sorry to be dense, but what's a "wired pair"?

[Greg J]

It what we usually call pocket pairs in hold em. They love to call them wired pairs on TV shows.

The value of them when another pair flops depends on the situation. Let's say you have 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

You sould rather see a flop of J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif
than you would J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif

This kind of thing comes from experience, but I will often raise a bet in situation one where I would fold in situation two.

[Francis]

Thx Greg,

wired pair = pocket pair

just to make sure I understand your example.

You fold with a flop of JJK because the likelyhood of someone having a K is high. With a flop of JJ6, no one plays 6s, so the chances of my 2 pair being best right now are pretty good?

tia,
Francis

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]

You fold with a flop of JJK because the likelyhood of someone having a K is high. With a flop of JJ6, no one plays 6s, so the chances of my 2 pair being best right now are pretty good?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, if someone has a 6 you have him beat. You want someone to have a 6. Lots of people in lower limits play 6s, or any crappy cards. In the first example you have to worry about the Jack only, in the second you have to worry about Jacks and Kings.

I got this example from a 3/6 game at Harrah's I played. This fish that played any 2 cards (and sees EVERY flop) limps, I'm in late mid position with 88 and I limp.

Flop is JJ6 rainbow. He bets everyone folds to me and I raise. Turn is a 9 -- he checks, I bet, he calls. River is a 3, check bet call, and I take it down with my 2 pair. I'm pretty sure he had a 6.

[jaeon]

[ QUOTE ]
The value of them when another pair flops depends on the situation. Let's say you have 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

You sould rather see a flop of J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif
than you would J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif

This kind of thing comes from experience, but I will often raise a bet in situation one where I would fold in situation two.

[/ QUOTE ]

thx, greg. that was helpful in terms of considering the unpaired card on the flop. but i'm still wondering what the flopped pair itself does to your odds. has anyone else given this any thought?

[jaeon]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop is JJ6 rainbow. He bets everyone folds to me and I raise. Turn is a 9 -- he checks, I bet, he calls. River is a 3, check bet call, and I take it down with my 2 pair. I'm pretty sure he had a 6.

[/ QUOTE ]

an A-6 most likely...thinking two pair, A kicker was good. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

that's another reason why limping with middle pocket pairs can be deadly. great play, greg.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
but i'm still wondering what the flopped pair itself does to your odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, people love aces, so if the flop is AA4 the chances of trips being out is greater than for 224 simply because lots of players will play any ace no matter what the other card is. Chances go down as cards go down rank. Someone is more likely to have trips with a KK3 board than a 773 board.

It also depends on how loose your table is. if 6 to 8 people are seeing the flop, chances are good one of those clowns has trips is the flop has a pair.

There is not really a single simple answer to your question. It all depends on the texture of the game.

[jaeon]

[ QUOTE ]
There is not really a single simple answer to your question. It all depends on the texture of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think this is nagging at me so badly because i seem to lose the most money playing two pair. i would guess i'm overvaluing two pair in 10 player games, but then i see people winning with freaking ace high on hands i don't play. i guess i just have a lot more to learn...

[Rudbaeck]

Low pairs on the flop when you hold a decently high wired pair are quite ok. It stops people from drawing together two pairs with their T5 and cracking your aces as you already have aces up.

But it's still significantly worse than having a split two pair. With a split two pair on a not-too-horrible board you can usually cap the turn, you can't reasonably do that with a split two pair.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

"Wired pair" is a stud term to differentiate the times your pair is hidden from the times when one of the paired cards is your door card. VVP likes using the term for hold'em. One of the many endearing characteristics of the "Hollywood Home Game <fill in the blank>"

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]
One of the many endearing characteristics of the "Hollywood Home Game <fill in the blank>"

[/ QUOTE ]

I groan in psychic pain every time Vince says it.

Regards,

T