roulette is bad.....

[iturner187]

I am writing this after sustaining a very heavy loss.

I have played poker seriously for about 8 Months. I ran my bankroll up from $50 to $3000.

It has taken me 8 months to enable me to play 5/10 with a sufficient bankroll, and a stage where I can make a nice amount of money per day.

Recently I have tried roulette after swearing to myself I would never play. I found myself playing at work everyday (where I am posting this message from).

I have just lost $2500 of my $3000 bankroll playing roulette.

I feel devestated. I cant remember feeling this bad in a long time.

I am after advice on what to do next. Has anyone else ever found themselves in a similar situation and if so how did you cope? What did you do to ensure this never happens again?

Can anyone offer any light in this very dark period in my poker career?

Regards,

Turner

[pzhon]

It sounds like you have a serious gambling problem. Get that casino software off of your computer ASAP and try Gamblers Anonymous (http://www.gamblersanonymous.org/index.htm). A good poker player should be able to recognize that playing roulette is horribly -EV, and there is no excuse for gambling on roulette with money you need (to keep playing 5-10), and it is even worse that you did it at work.

Many people can drink for fun with no ill effect. Many people can gamble for fun. Some people have a weakness, and they will ruin their lives if they drink. Be thankful you only lost $2500 (and have not yet lost your job and friends) to discover you might have the analogous problem with gambling. Gambling may impair your judgement, so avoid it and get help if you need to.

[Easy E]

I am after advice on what to do next. Has anyone else ever found themselves in a similar situation and if so how did you cope? What did you do to ensure this never happens again?

Stab yourself in the hand with a fork if you ever gamble at a casino game online?

Can anyone offer any light in this very dark period in my poker career?
Yes, hopefully you'll never be so stupid as to use your poker bankroll for casino gambling again and you won't wager 80% of it on one game anyway.

[josie_wales]

[ QUOTE ]
I am after advice on what to do next. Has anyone else ever found themselves in a similar situation and if so how did you cope? What did you do to ensure this never happens again?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont play roulette.

Start over with your $500 at the $1BB tables and work your way back up to $5/$10

You are still up $450 from the $50 you started with.

Could be worse.

jw

[AdamK]

I used to play in casinos a lot, and often had the urge to put all my chips on red or black after a long session.
I believe it's mentioned in Tony Holdens book "Big Deal".
Probably a common problem.
It's okay to make a mistake, just don't make the same one twice.
Take a break, forget about it, move on.
If you do it again.. seek help.

[tek]

Read some of Dostoyevskis books...

[Al Mirpuri]

First, take a break, play nothing but a mournful violin.

Second, return to low limit poker and build your bankroll up again.

Third, leave roulette alone. It cannot be beat. Any book that states it can is rubbish.

Good Luck.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
Third, leave roulette alone. It cannot be beat. Any book that states it can is rubbish.

[/ QUOTE ]
While I agree that the vast majority of advantage gamblers should avoid significant bets on roulette, there are circumstances in which you can beat roulette.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A physical roulette wheel is a machine for producing random numbers. Machines break. If the casinos are not careful, they may run a broken roulette wheel, and extensive statistical tests may find a wheel that may be played profitably. See the lecture by Olaf Vancura (http://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/ChanceLecture/contents.msri.html) among the Chance Lectures at Dartmouth, slides 40 and 41 in particular, or one of Legends of Caltech (http://www.bookstore.caltech.edu/caltech/tradebook_list.asp?mscssid=HCV0UV6FDH9E9KPFK215NAN V08VPF22F&pf_id=CAL0020T%2A999&catalog_id=178&type =3&pf_name=LEGENDS+OF+CALTECH&origination_id=W&sou rce_form=dept%5Fform) or More Legends of Caltech (http://www.bookstore.caltech.edu/caltech/tradebook_list.asp?mscssid=HCV0UV6FDH9E9KPFK215NAN V08VPF22F&pf_id=CAL0021T%2A999&catalog_id=178&type =3&pf_name=MORE+LEGENDS+OF+CALTECH&origination_id= W&source_form=dept%5Fform). (Unfortunately, I lent those out and they never came back. One story tells of two Caltech alumni who were even paid as roulette props by casinos as they beat roulette wheels.) It is conceivable that an online casino would accidentally implement a poor random number generator to make roulette beatable, but it is far more likely that people will incorrectly convince themselves that this has happened.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif On physical roulette wheels, bets may be acccepted after the ball is in motion. In theory, a "wheel watcher" may be able to determine where the ball will end up well enough to obtain an advantage. I think more players believe that they have obtained an advantage this way than actually have an advantage.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Roulette is a reasonable component of some bonus-whoring strategies. While roulette is not directly beatable, the idea is to pay less house advantage than the bonuses received. Though the house advantage in roulette is high, you also get a relatively high amount of variance for your wager if you put everything on one number. This is good when the wagering requirement is high or the bonus is not cashable (a sticky bonus).

If you simply bet on red or black at American roulette, the probability of being even or ahead after 10,000 trials is about 1 in 10 million, and your average win will be far smaller than your average loss.

[college kid]

I called a $250 all in with a boat against a newbie whose expression and jumping out of his seat clearly said quads. I mean there was no doubt. I knew I was losing. And I gave away my money. The trick for me is to remember how incredibly aweful I felt and how stupid and sick to my stomach I felt. That was about six or seven months ago and I haven't done anything stupid again! yet....

[Al Mirpuri]

I really liked your post. It showed the exceptions to a my generalization. As for physical wheels and their imperfections, it can be done but you need a computer to do it; read Cool Hand magazine by www.bellerockgaming.com. (http://www.bellerockgaming.com.) As for the betting after the wheel is spinning, are you talking about "the dealer's signature". A dubious concept.

[junkmail3]

[ QUOTE ]
I have played poker seriously for about 8 Months. I ran my bankroll up from $50 to $3000.


[/ QUOTE ]

Okay.

[ QUOTE ]

Recently I have tried roulette after swearing to myself I would never play. I found myself playing at work everyday (where I am posting this message from).


[/ QUOTE ]

Hm. Questionalbe action from a 'poker player'

[ QUOTE ]

I have just lost $2500 of my $3000 bankroll playing roulette.


[/ QUOTE ]

HOLY F***ING SH*T!!!!!!!!!
(Well, I guess it was expected if you played long enough.)

[ QUOTE ]

I am after advice on what to do next.


[/ QUOTE ]

Would you even listen? You knew better/know better/will know better.

There's no advice that you don't know. Stick to poker and stop playing that wheel game.

[ QUOTE ]

Can anyone offer any light in this very dark period in my poker career?


[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds like your 'poker career' is doomed. You're a gamboler. There is no safe hope for your 'poker career.'


Seriously, I don't trust your ability to make correct choices when it comes to poker. So, either you got lucky, or were drinking heavily to curb your inhibitions to play soundly.

[slickpoppa]

Another example:
http://www.snopes.com/luck/monte.htm

The moral is, roulette is beatable...J/K

[toots]

I think the biggest thing that set flags off in my head was the notion that a person would be gambling from work. I mean sure, the internet makes it easy, but that doesn't mean you should do it.

I'm not the sort who thinks that the boss gets 100% of your time - there's always the palatte-clearing game of solitaire to get the last task out of your head.

On the other hand, if you can't leave the money games alone while you're at work, you may have a problem.

[ohgeetee]

LET IT RIDE!

[Monty Cantsin]

Also: The Eudaemonic Pie (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0595142362/qid=1098222357/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-0268013-4429720?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

/mc

[tek]

Betting on things you have no control or influence over is stupid in my opinion.

[Gata Kamsky]

I know this guy who made about 50k from some great nl side games in the 2001 or 2002 wsop. He went right after to roulette and promptly lost 20k. Then he took the 30k and from what I understand he got the most expensive hookers in vegas really high class playboy quality models to bang for the next week. So just pretend you banged some random girl on the cover of playboy and thats how you lost your money.

[mosta]

here's how I beat roulette: find the cheapest limit in the room, always bet the minimum, and as soon as you spot a cocktail waitress order two drinks and when she brings them order two more before you let her go. then talk to the cute girls in glasses at the table. continue until you can leave with one of the girls or you lose your $100.

[kalooki45]

I feel your pain.
It takes sooooo long to make it, and then ZAP.
You have 3 choices:

1. Start over and build up your BR slowly playing poker--you did it once!
2. Play roulette to get it back fast--but with only $500.00, you're at risk of ruin stage--hard to take swings.
3. Give up gambling altogether.

MOstly, you have to grit your teeth and settle down to get it back. It's heartbreaking, but there's no easy answer out there. /images/graemlins/heart.gif

PS With 2K bankroll, you shouldn't lose the whole thing at roulette. I'll tell you a little game you can try if you want to PM me..but I don't think 500 would cover the downswings /images/graemlins/frown.gif
in any case--good luck!

[magiluke]

Also, some roulette dealers (dealers?, workers?, whatever you call them) are able to hit certain numbers. My friend's boss was once down in AC playing roulette, and apparently got the whole table really into it. This made the casino lots of money. This guy was apparently playing one number fairly heavily the whole night. After everyone else left, and he was almost broke and ready to leave, the dealer told him to put the rest of his money on the number he was playing, spins the wheel, and there it is! The dealer hit the number. Just something to think about with roulette =/

[Al Mirpuri]

This anecdotal evidences sounds unreliable.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
This anecdotal evidences sounds unreliable.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nice understatement. Why would the croupier want the players to lose earlier? Don't dealers get tipped more from winning players?

[stigmata]

The other way to win is to cheat.

E.g those east europeans who netted 1.3 million in a london casino

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994815

There has been scant details about how they achieved this -- has anyone heard anything else.

The other way to cheat "past posting".

http://www.casinotimes.co.uk/casino-news/atlantic-city.htm


Whilst these methods remove one gamble, they introduce another gamble (i.e. risk of prison). Best stick to poker really...

[esroM]

The best advice I could ever give is to just completely stop. Don't even attempt to play something that you're addicted to in moderation, it won't happen. You need to find something else to fill your time instead of gambling perhaps.

[stigmata]

Interesting story. I was actually most impressed by the intelligence of the casino. Instead of doing the obvious thing (taking the faulty machine out of operation), they swapped them around so that nothing appeared different. In this way, they got alot of their money back.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Betting on things you have no control or influence over is stupid in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you have a pattern map for party poker??

[Neil Stevens]

Play the players, not the cards, heh.

[lefty rosen]

Get a girlfriend shag her, but don't get her pregnant that is definate -EV........ /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[leftychips]

WHY NOT TRY WIN GOALS AND LOSS LIMITS IT WILL HELP. ALSO AS A LONG TIME ROULETTE AND POKER PLAYER A VERY GOOD LITTLE SYSTEM TO USE ON THE SIDE BETS IN ROULETTE IS 3 UNITS UP ON A LOSS DOWN 2 UNITS ON A WIN. U CAN WIN LESS THAN 50% AND STILL COME OUT ON TOP. JUST LIKE ANY GAMING WIN GOALS LOSS LIMITS TRY IT U MIGHT LIKE IT. ALL THE BEST LEFTYCHIPS

[ilya]

Is this really the right thread for this discussion?

[r3vbr]

I think you should sell somethings (say house or car)
gather a LOT of money, and put it on RED
If you win, then your problem is solved, if you lose, you can become a theif and steal it all back, or you can also jump of a building and end it all very quickly.
But think about it. You could DOUBLE everthing you have.
I know it's gonna fall on red, it always does!

[kalooki45]

Alright, I'm tired of all these roulette jokes! LOL

Here's 1 day for me:--these are the sums in pounds.
BR: 9374.

9564
9699
9902
10,123
10,632
10,815
10,789
10,900
11,285
END DAY 1

DAY 2:
11,285
11,716
12,151
11,638 (whoops!)
12,531 (got em back)
11,983 (oops)
12,055
12,175
12,202
12,444

END DAY 2 and so it goes.....y'all don't know diddly about roulette :P

[stigmata]

If that is a joke i'm not getting it. That is one lucky run.

You got a pattern mapper or something?

Where do you play roullete in the UK?

[kalooki45]

No I don't have a pattern mapper..but I'm not sure they do any good anyway--they probably change the primes every day or so--so it wouldn't be much help. All the same, I'd love to hear more about it!
I play online...Euro tables only..Ritz and Littlewoods.
That was 2 days of a system we use. That particular total wound up at 34K.
I don't cheat, use machines, etc. I just play the same game everyone else does.

[stigmata]

What is your system then?

I really don't believe it because, obviously, roullete is completely unbeatable (especially online) in the long run.

Either you must be lying or lucky, but this conversation is diverting so please continue....

p.s. I'm not flaming, just interested!

[kalooki45]

lol..it IS fun
I'm not lying, and it's absolutely true that roulette cannot be beaten--the odds ALWAYS favour the house.
Those figures I gave you are real--I keep records. I forgot to mention that they don't show every spin, though--there are small losses and wins in there--these numbers are when I stop and restake.
WHen I've got ahead, I take the stakes back down. That's the record you see there.
My husband and a mathematician friend of his ran random number simulations that would equal several lifetimes...LOL
in some lifetimes, you're slightly down--other lives up! They did however learn some things about what they will tend to do--given ANY adjustment to the primes.
It gets easier and easier to win at roulette as your BR goes up---I'd say to have even a chance you need minimum 5k to start--cause there will be big downswings. If you can't stake enough to get it back--you'll lose it all.
Roulette is all about staking, and about knowing when to play and when to STOP. There are periods (sometimes days) when whatever you put on there is going right down the pan...you've GOT to be able to recognize those days and not play.
That's why I hate playing in casinos--once you've gone to all the trouble of dressing, going, etc....you're in there to play whether it's good or not!

[PokerMaster]

im with you guys, roullette is bad, i always think its fixed

[Freakin]

[ QUOTE ]
im with you guys, roullette is bad, i always think its fixed

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't have to be fixed... the house always wins (in the long run). If you don't believe the house always wins in roulette, then you can't honestly say that you beleive you can win at poker by making the right decisions (regardless of results). And by the way, i don't think that encouraging this guy to "build his bankroll slowly" is the right thing to do. He needs to cash it out, invest the money in a healthy hobby, find info on GA, and never gamble again. He's got a problem that a bankroll won't fix.
Freakin

[stigmata]

OK Kalooki, I think I am almost getting this...

I've never really given roulette any serious thought before. However, I figured using a martingdale doubling-up type system you could actually beat the wheel given two premises:

1. The casiono has no limit on the maximum bet
2. You have an infinite bankroll

These are quite difficult limitations to overcome. Even a statistical approximation of an infinite bankroll can't cut the mustard. The chances are, you are going to hit that really nasty run where you lose all your money - *before you have doubled up*. So why not just put all your money on one spin, and save all the time and effort?

It is, however, interesting how you can be a favourite to increase your bankroll over the short term. However, the casino is still favoured in the long term, and the odds being offered remain the same.

I can see how you might be able to design a system that has a strong chance of showing a small, short-term profit. I would be interested in any results of simulations etc, if you have them.

[kalooki45]

You can't really 'beat the wheel'.
They did all these studies years ago, and I don't have the charts.
There isn't an iron clad 'secret system' that works-- that stuff is junk.
We do pretty well on it, though..despite the fact that it's mathematically impossible...LOL

[stigmata]

Sure, wasnt suggesting there was a secret system.

I was just arguing that increasing your bankroll by a small proportion (say, a 30% increase) was fairly achiavable. However, if you carry on playing you will go bust sooner or later.

I just wanted save myself the hassle of doing the maths to work out what the risk to my bankroll was if I wanted to increase my bankroll by 30% etc.