Call down?

[runa]

Table is very passive. No specific reads otherwise. Unsure on turn action.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif. MP posts a blind of $1.
CO calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls, MP (poster) calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, MP folds, CO calls.

Turn: (7 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (10 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 12 BB

[naphand]

Yes.

You have no read, and want to see if he plays Q5/6 or J5/6, or limps QJ; bets 2nd/3rd pair on the flop; bet/calls TP on the flop then stop-and-go's with it. You have a showdownable hand an another goon calling to add equity to the pot. You get good value from this call down.

[flawless_victory]

of course...
are you considering folding or raising?? dont fold.

[runa]

I thought calling down was right, but without a read I'm uncertain if raising is by any means a better play.

[J.R.]

I thought calling down was right, but without a read I'm uncertain if raising is by any means a better play.

I find a lot of people stop and go with a pair (often top pair on the flop) like this becuase they fear giving a free card to you AK. A hand that improved to soemthing like two pair (QJ) on the turn will often check-raise the turn (and its unlikely the opponent has Q5 or Q6, so its less likely in general that the turn did improve the opponent) because they don't fear the free card to AK and won't want you to fold overcards to the turn bet (which is what a vulnerable pair wants). 56 or a set will often 3-bet the flop or check-raise the turn (becuase they do not fear a free card that much).

So anyway, I am inclined to raise this turn becuase 1) it appears we have our opponent beat and 2) our opponent's stop and go is indicative of the fact they don't trust us, so its likely they will call us down. The presence of UTG also makes a turn raise better, because you gain extra value from him when you are ahead and UTG calls 2 on the turn with a flush or staright draw, and raising also protects your hand when UTG folds a 5 out draw like middle pair.

If the CO wisen's up and folds to the turn raise, well, you just got a great line on how to play unimproved overcards against him on the turn (don't overdue this but recognize you will often have semi-bluffing equity on the turn in similar spots in the future). If the CO 3-bets the turn, he is a preety good player who you need to be careful against (you still need to call the 3-bet and fold the river unimproved).

[Nemesis]

I think a turn raise is a pretty good play since you have somebody coming along with you, but i don't know if I have the balls to pull the trigger. Folding is a no no, calling down is perfectly acceptable.

[naphand]

This is a well thought out response but, I think it has only some relevance to the Party $1/2 game. As follows:

I think Q5s or Q6s will frequently be played for a limp by a large proportion of the players in this game.

Many of these players just bet out if they improve, they do not seem to know what a CR is.

Many times this bet means 2-pair, but I agree it can also mean only a pair on a SNG (I found the SNG players to be a minority - most Party goons will just check/call down when they get raised, regardless of what falls). My feeling from this hand is - I have no idea if this is a SNG or Hero is beat - but I am not comfortable raising this player until I have more information on his standards, dee-daa-doo-doo UTG can be played for overcalls but may fold for 2 on the Turn. When CO bets the River as well, I suspect it is 2-pair, or at least a good J (of which, we only beat JT) especially given the table read as very passive.