An SSH Concept I've Never Been Clear On

[banditdad]

Preflop in EP I have 99 in a tight game. SSH says to play 77-AA so I call. Someone behind me raises. SSH says against a raise to play TT-AA. So should I fold my pair? I've never been clear on this. Do I fold only if it's raised before me or any time it's raised?

The same in MP. Play Axs if no raise but fold against a raise. But what if it's raised after me? Do I see the extra small bet since I already have money in the pot and now maybe the pot odds are larger? What if I'm holding middle suited connectors or AQ, AJ, AT?

I've read SSH twice now and can't seem to find the answer.

[bonanz]

if it is only one bet back to you after you limp it is an easy call. when it says don't play against a raise it means a raise before you, where you are faced with 2 bets cold

[kevyk]

Exactly.

[slavic]

If your game is tighter you should be raising 99 yourself. If you can limit the field to 2 or less players your win rate goes up substantialy.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Do I see the extra small bet since I already have money in the pot and now maybe the pot odds are larger?

[/ QUOTE ]



Sort of.
The fact that YOU have money in the pot is completely irrelevent. That money is gone.
The fact that there is currently ALREADY money in the pot (whether it's yours or not) and it's only 1 bet back to you means you should obviously call.


Read the general PF concepts before the charts again and work on these things in your mind.


FWIW, I'm not surprised that a player got confused by this concept that I consider to be kind of easy.
When I first saw the charts (or tables or whatever they are) it occured to me that somebody out there is going to think they should play their 99 and then fold it if someone raises the pot after they've already entered.

The general rule, especially for multi-way hands, is that if you are already in for 1 bet then calling 1 more bet if it's raised behind you is mandatory since you now have sufficient pot-odds to stay in the hand.

Even if it's only heads-up you should still call as there will be a minimum of 3.5SB in the pot (and this would be if you limped in EP and then BB raised) and it's only 1 more SB for you to see what the flop looks like.

Now, if you limp, and then it's 3-bet or capped back to you then you have to consider how many are in the pot and whether your hand does okay multi-way.
For example, AJo is probably worth folding here. You put in your 1 bet and it's capped back to you?!?! Muck that baby.

But pocket-pairs you are probably getting enough pot-odds to call 2SB (and sometimes even 3SB) cold and see the flop even if it's a really low pocket-pair and you are playin almost solely for set value.

[Lost Wages]

.

[Ed Miller]

Yes, you almost always call for one more bet back to you. I discuss it on p. 86. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[banditdad]

Found the page. I've read the book twice now and somehow kept missing that. Thanks to all for the response. I do usually call one bet back to me, it always seemed silly not to, but I was concerned I might be creating a leak.

[wdbaker]

Ed,
We can all appreciate that you wrote this great book, but I would prefer it if you stick to the hidden code in your book and not reveal it to those who can't figure it out. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

That goes for all of you who read it and understand, please quit contributing to the revelation of The Code... LOL

If everyone reads this book and understands then I'll have to find something new to do, maybe that's giving the human race to much credit... Ooops forgot to put on my tinfoil hat

One Street at a Time
wdbaker Denver, Co

[tizim]

There's another similar concept in SSH that I'm unsure about. On page 85, Miller writes that "cold-calling situations might arise every 15 hours or so." However, in the preflop chart for loose games, it says to play suited aces, any two suited cards ten or higher, and even hands like 76s against raises. Isn't this the same thing as cold-calling? I think these kind of situations occur more than once every 15 hours of play.

Anyone care to explain? Should I still be cold-calling preflop with A2s?

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
On page 85, Miller writes that "cold-calling situations might arise every 15 hours or so." However, in the preflop chart for loose games, it says to play suited aces, any two suited cards ten or higher, and even hands like 76s against raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

On this page it says IN A TIGHT GAME (his idea of the tight/loose with 3-5 players). The standards you then quote are for loose games.


To CC with the smaller suiteds or PP's there need to be several players already in the pot (or if you can reasonably expect a lot of players).
You want multi-way action on these....if you CC with a crappy hand and end up playing just a 2 or 3 way pot then it was wrong to CC. If you are reasonably concerned of this happening then CC-ing is probably a mistake.


If you have pokertracker I recommend keeping an eye on your CC stat every once in awhile.
I recommend somewhere around 0.5-0.75% of your hands should be cold-called.
Ed says that even adding in the PP's and suited-connectors that you get you still shouldn't be CC-ing more than once every 3 hours on average.
In a B&M this is once in every 90 hands which is a little more than 1% which would be a bit high for the tables I play but is probably acceptable if you are on the type of table where an UTG raise is frequently met by 3 or 4 cold-callers.


The general point is....

- re-raising or folding is typically best unless it's multi-way for your CC with a PP or suited-connector.

- You should be careful not to CC too much.

- When your opponents cold-call you (or anyone else) that's a good thing for you. They are either not appropriately re-raising with a strong hand OR are inappropriately entering the pot with a lesser hand like KJo or something.

- In previous discussions on CC-ing it was speculated that you wouldn't be making a huge mistake if you NEVER cold-called.
If you took an average fish and only allowed him to re-raise or fold when faced with a raise you would probably be helping his game a great deal even though he likely wouldn't think so.

I don't think it's necessary to go so extreme as NEVER cold-calling. But I do believe that NEVER cold-calling wouldn't cost you TOO much and for many players would improve their game.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
There's another similar concept in SSH that I'm unsure about. On page 85, Miller writes that "cold-calling situations might arise every 15 hours or so." However, in the preflop chart for loose games, it says to play suited aces, any two suited cards ten or higher, and even hands like 76s against raises. Isn't this the same thing as cold-calling? I think these kind of situations occur more than once every 15 hours of play.

Anyone care to explain? Should I still be cold-calling preflop with A2s?

[/ QUOTE ]
Cold-calling situations don't happen all that often. To be calling with A2s, it would need to be a situation where you're calling one bet, or if you're calling two, it needs to be a very large multiway pot (i.e. UTG raises, gets 3-4 callers, and you have A5s on the button -- calling would be OK). Also, UTG raises, gets 2 cold-callers, and you have A5s in the blinds. Calling would definitely be good.

Rob

[banditdad]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have pokertracker I recommend keeping an eye on your CC stat every once in awhile.
I recommend somewhere around 0.5-0.75% of your hands should be cold-called.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do I find the CC stat on PT?

[tizim]

Thanks for the explanations guys; it clears up a lot.

[jdl22]

Under the "Position stats" tab you can find your cold calling percentage from each position.