Pair vs AK

what do you do, in a NO-Limit game, if you have say a good stack in front of you, and you have a good feel for you opponnent and know that he is going all in on AK, should you call with a Medium pair......and risk being short-handed if you lose or should you fold before the flop when he makes that big of a raise. What would you do?

How do you get that kind of feel about whether he has AK or not? I would just muck the pair. It's too close to take such a huge risk with.

Likewise I wouldn't call an all-in preflop bet with AK against a small pair either, for the same reason.

I think with small pairs and AK/AQ you should make raises preflop, but I wouldn't go all-in with those the way I would with AA or KK.

Why should I call all-in when I'm a slim favorite when, if I bide my time, I can nail my opponent when I'm a big favorite?


There's an old rule of thumb about no-limit: "Never go all-in when you're either a slight favorite or a big dog." You may be wrong about your opponent's AK, and if you are you're a big dog.


Fold the hand, and wait for a bigger edge to push.

I completely agree with the above two posts, but I have something to add.


Say you are in a tournament and you find yourself in this situation but you are clearly the WORST player there. For whatever reason, if you get some psychic read, I would consider going all-in. If you KNOW that you are 50-50, and your chances at the table are less than this, you need to push your whole stack in.


-Marlow

if you are afraid to go in when you are a favorite or getting right odds on the money you probably cant win in no limit. if the money affects your playing decisions you are duck soup. not only do you give up edges but set yourself up to be run over anytime your hand is readable.

i know of no players that play like that , that can win in no limit against players that are at all capable.

Ray, I see your point about always betting on the edge in poker...but there are a couple of issues here:

1. How can you possibly get a read on whether someone actually has AK or TT?

2. In a NL game that isn't part of a tournament do you really want to go all in with 44 against AK even if you know for sure what your opponent holds and that you are a heads-up favorite?

I know what your answer to #2 will be but I am especially interested to know about #1. How do you know preflop what you're up against?

You should rarely CALL a big all-in bet when the stacks are deep and you hold a small pair. By small pair, I mean JJ down to 77.


If the stacks are not that deep, you need to be willing to commit with smaller pairs otherwise you will be pushed around too much and you can't make any money.


My rule of thumb is somewhere around 50x to 100x the big blind, depending on how fast the game is. Once I have over 100x the big blind, the game needs to be really fast for me to commit my stack with something other than AA, KK, or AK and sometimes QQ but only if I do the betting.


This also assumes the action hasn't already been heavy and I'm pot stuck with QQ or JJ. That can happen, and you need to be aware that often you have the correct odds to call the rest of your stack just in case he only has AK, and you also have about 25% equity in the pot even if he has AA.


Also, you need to be able to make the same call with just AK, because once you put $100 or so into the pot, you can't really fold AK for $400 more. There's at LEAST $200 already, and you're seeing $400 more to win $600 minimum. You probably have 6 outs, unless you know for sure he's real real tight. Then you can fold. But against a good player, $400 more is probably the threshold once you've put in $100 of your $500.


One other thing to consider is the game conditions. How hard will it be to get that stack back? Is the game fast and loose, and deep stacks are everywhere waiting to gamble with you? Is the game screwed down with a few short-stacks causing log jams?


In a game where you think it'll be like pulling teeth to get those chips back, I think you should play tighter and fold more. But these are not good games to play with a deep stack anyway.


natedogg

nate-web@thegrovers.com

his post said he knew he was against ace king. so that was the premise i replied under. and he said medium pair. that like 7-10 for me.


for question #1. most times you cant tell what he has exactly, but some players you can precisely put them on one or two exact hands.


#2. you hardly ever get to have to make a decision to go all in with a smaller pair, as you dont get that far into the pot betting with it. except sometimes in tournaments when you need to accumulate chips rather than last, or are stealing the antes.

I just played my first NL tournament on Tuesday, so what I am about to say is not really advice to you, but I'm putting my opinion out there to see how far off is my thinking.


First off, I think it makes a difference if you are in a sidegame or a tournament, because in a non-tournament I will take a bet that has a slight edge as long as my bankroll can support it. In a tournament I will pass on these bets because I'd rather risk my money in a situation where I have a better chance of winning -- go broke in a tournament and your out. However, if my stack is a lot bigger than yours then I will take those slim edges.


So, if I'm in a tournament and know that I am against an all-in bet of AK then I would pass as long as I hadn't committed much to the pot, and as long as my stack wasn't substantially bigger than the other guys. In fact, about the only thing I would call a preflop all-in raise with is AA.


The only exceptions to this would be if I had already committed a substancial bet, or if I'm playing someone that routinely goes all-in preflop (see the "System" in TPFAP). I don't even like calling this bet with a substantial bet of mine in the pot. However, if I don't call it then everyone at the table will start running all over me, so I have to make the call.


(As a side note, I only commit a substantial bet pre-flop with either a monster pair, AK, or crap. I'm calling with the monsters and folding the crap).

Was playing in a NL satellite and raised a third of my chips with AK. The player to my immediate left raised all-in.


I put him on QQ, JJ - some pair lower than K.


I mucked it, waiting for a better time, but I think that under time pressure in a satellite tourney I made a very bad move.


Sure the odds say that I'm getting 2-1 on my call where I'm a 6-5 dog (I think) if my read is correct, but I didn't want to push all in when I figured I was even a slight dog.


I think I made 2 bad moves in that hand. 1 - making a raise of that size in the first place with AK. I'm thinking that 15% of my stack on a hand I'd consider folding would be a better strategy. 2 - I think after I was in for 1/3, I should have called the all-in bet.


Advice?


~D

I will give you general satellite advise. They move WAY to fast. Never muck A-K, AA, KK, QQ or and maybe never JJ preflop unless there are 2 substantial all ins to you (then call with AA, and KK). I will never muck these hands to a single all in raise in a 1 table satellite, never.


How is that for a strong, definitive, opiniated statement.

Thanks. Yeah - I guess I'm too used to limit play to realize the actual strength of AK heads up.


~D