Unbelievable calls/limps!

I just saw someone call a preflop raise in .50/1 NL on Paradise of $2 with 27o!!


In another hand, I raised preflop to $3 with AKc and was called by 23spades.


In another hand, someone limped with 58o on the button!


In all three cases, the callers won! I was on the victim end of 2 of those... /images/frown.gif


- Tony

Isn't it common for many expert No-limit Hold'em experts to play many hands pre-flop for the bring-in or tiny raises? Even hands which are total trash in limit games? I thought this was commonplace since so much money can be made post-flop if stack sizes are large.


Of course, I'm not implying that these Paradise players are experts.

Yes, these calls seem a little silly but it is very reasonable to call the blinds or even a small raise with hands that would be complete trash in limit. This is especially true for speculative hands like 33 or 64s. Your implied odds are huge if you play well postflop and the others play poorly. You can also play more hands if you have a big stack compared to the others, since you can bully them postflop.

I played .25/.50 NL @ PP last night and found limping in with junk when you only have to pay the blind bet to be rewarding. Like most at PP, I'm a novice at NL, but was thinking implied odds would be great if you hit so it's worth coming in with stuff you'd always throw away in limit if it's just for the blind bet.


My best pot went as follows: I was in small blind w/ 23o with a bunch of callers. Of course, in limit I'd throw this junk away. But NL, hell, I'll call the extra quarter for a miracle flop that could lead me to grab someone's stack.


Flop comes with 2-2-? giving me trips. Now I come out betting at least the size of the pot everytime. Knock all out but a MP with about $50 stack who calls me all the way. On the river a 3 hits, giving me a boat and I put the MP all-in.


Showdown comes and he shows pocket KKs for a 2-pair. I'm thinking, "you limped in pre-flop for .50 packing KK"! Oh brother, he got what he deserved. Had he only raised a buck or two pre-flop I would have folded. I'm sure Mr KK was shocked that I even came in with 23o, but it was his fault for not making it more expensive for me to come in with such trash.


Ed

Right. The danger is that you'll run into a bigger deuce (i.e. *any* deuce :-). This is where playing well post-flop really matters.


But yes, I think it can be extremely profitable to play cheese preflop for just the BB or even a tiny raise (what is up with these $.50 raises?) if both you and your opponent(s) have big stacks.


Regards, Lee

The person who limped with kings has to realize that when you limp with a big pair like that you might have just tricked your opponents into beat you. It can have value, but then the hand plays differently then if he had raised it.


I think the limit open-raises can have some value in PL where you often need leverage. Its a pot building open. The flip side of that is that you also give others leverage. OTOH the people that raise the minimum behind limpers or behind even other raisers seem to me like they are asking to be repoped big. People who raise small behind others out of position (in the blinds) are suicidal in most cases.


The other advantage to the small raises which applies to online NL as well as PL is that people often click the "check/fold" button in the blinds/post. You can push these people out for a nominal fee.

How about 2 people calling $25+. One with A2s and one with A5s. Obviously my KK never had a chance...


Sincerely, Andreas

Thanks, Lee!


Have enjoyed your WLLHE! It has helped this relative novice break even on PP micro limits. I keep it by my side when I play online and it has been an inspriation.


Ed

Limping out of position is a real sucker play. Only extremely skilled players with big stacks can get away with playing loose.


One problem is that you don't have the price for many typical draws. Let's say you play a 6 7s in middle position. It's great if you flop a nut straight, but that is an extreme long shot. You really can't play any draw after the flop. An eight way straight or small flush draw is too poor a hand when you have to call a bet from in front with potential raisers behind you.


Unfortunately, tight play is the only winning strategy for all except a few rare players who can frequently read their opponents tells.