general question about stripsqueez quote

[turnipmonster]

commenting on some of guido's hands, stripsqueez says:

"calling the flop and folding the turn is never a great line and i try hard to do it as little as possible"

context: guido raises 1 limper with QJs, the flop comes 367 rainbow and guido calls a flop bet and folds to a 4 on the turn.

this disturbs me because I do this very frequently in hands much like guido's, i.e. middle overcards with not much showdown value (K high and less). so I am curious why this sucks and how I can fix this problem, as I take this line a lot.

--turnipmonster

[ALL1N]

It sucks because you're getting 5.5-1, yet unless you have some masterplan, you only have 6 or less outs.

[turnipmonster]

so if my overcard outs are all good I think I'll make 1.5 BBs on average on the turn and river, no?

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
It sucks because you're getting 5.5-1, yet unless you have some masterplan, you only have 6 or less outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, if the hand ends after the flopcall. But normally you are investing 1SB to win 6-7SB + turn and river bets, giving you something like 1/10. And there is also a chance that he will check turn giving you a free card.

Against players that you know will not bet a draw (loosepassive) it is sometimes OK to call flop and hope for turn and/or free card to see river.

What should you do? Raise your QJ? Fold them?

If someone "never" calls flop after raising preflop I "always" bet into them if flop hits me. They raise, I 3bet and they often have to fold turn if their 6/47 dont hit. After a while they start to fold river instead of raising and if I have a good day I then start to bluff /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[rory]

There is nothing inherently wrong with calling the flop and folding on the turn. Sometimes it is the right play-- peeling one off with overcards if you think a raise isn't going to buy you a free card is a good example. Calling with a gutshot and a backdoor flush draw or something and folding when you don't improve is another. The six-max games are very aggressive and trying free card plays and the like can be expensive against certain opponents-- so sometimes this call the flop and fold the turn line is the best way to go.

Here is something everyone who thinks check-calling is wimpy should read:

Post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=mediumholdem&Number=783700 &Forum=All_Forums&Words=%2Bbox%20%2Bwuss%20%2Bcall &Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=781786&Search=true&whe re=bodysub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype= y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post783700)

[fsuplayer]

Yeah, that is a great thread with the top minds all involved. Everyone should read it.

"if the correct play is to check-call, then it is tight-aggressive to check call."