A PL O/8 Hand

.25/.50 blinds at Paradise.


A couple limpers to me in the cutoff. I have 3cQc4sKs. I raise a buck. IMO, a good non-A2 hand to raise with here. I'm wise enough to get away from troublesome lows with it. The button calls (I was hoping he'd fold) as do 2 in EP. Do you call/raise/fold here pre-flop?


4 of us put in 1.50 to see the flop of Kc6c3o. So, I have top and bottom and second nut flush draw. A player with about $300 bets the pot. He makes big bets into raisers when non-low boards come and hasn't shown down much. He knows the game. I call and the button calls. Do you call/raise/fold here?


Turn. K. EP bet's the pot, which I raise for my last buck, and now its heads up. I figure there's probably a 30% chance he's trying to buy it from the low draws, and a 70% chance he has oneof the following: trip K's big kicker, 3's full, 6's full (most likely), K's full of 3's, K's full of 6's. Call/fold here (calling same as raising)?


River is a 5c. No low for either of us.


He shows K6 for the nuts.


I've replayed the hand a lot in my head. I'm wondering if he would have called a flop raise with top two? Could you have folded the turn here?


Thanks for any thoughts.


sw

Well i cant comment on the turn because i would've folded preflop. The hand is total crap. If i was in the blind and got a free look, i would have folded the flop, so there's no way i would reach the turn unless it was checked on flop too.

I think you should have folded preflop: Your hand lacks all nut potential and is an excellent favorite for coming in second if there's any action.


cu


Ignatius

You can't comment on the turn because you would have folded pre-flop?


What if I had flopped nut flush and the wheel and someone bet into me for all of their chips? Could you comment on that? Or is the concept of someone being in a hand at the turn that you would have folded pre-flop so deep and mysterious that you just can't even put yourself in that position?


The raise pre-flop was questionable, for sure. But are you telling me that after several limpers in a PL game, you would automatically fold from the cutoff with two wheel cards, and KQ double suited for a single small bet? There are so many games (not all, but many) in which that hand is an *easy* call. If you can't stretch your mind so far as to imagine yourself in such a game, then I doubt your comments would be very helpful anyway.


In my weekly home game, I will go all night without folding a hand in an unraised omaha pot on the button, and I KILL that game. A hand like KQ43 double suited is a perfect example of a hand that can flop big, mix your play up enough to keep 'em guessing, and is easy to get away from based on action (just not if you turn second full to someone's top full).


Thanks anyway.

An easy hand to get away from if there is alot of action? You got a ton of action and lost your entire stack. Even if your full house is good, you still might only get half the pot. That hand has to huge a potential to make second or third best. Throw it away prefop and wait for a better opportunity. By doing so, you dont have to make tough decisions on the flop and turn.

I agree the hand is fairly crappy and not worth raising. However, I would have thought it is worth $.50 to see a multiway flop in late position when the money is deep. You think it would be a mistake to limp with it even on the button against poor opponents?

Your hand does do better then the average random hand from a showdown standpoint, but I think it has a lot of potential for pain. If you can play well after the flop (like not getting taken off for your whole stack when you have a non nut draw come in) then its probably worth a limp preflop in position.


This flop represents everything that is painful about double suited garbage. It looks like you flopped a good hand yet you are only going to get action from hands that are as good or better then yours.

I would never play this hand no matter how many limpers. I would not call for a half bet in the small blind. This hand needs a total miracle flop, and then it is not likely to get any action.

I have to agree with everyone else'd post about not playing the hand at all. Your comments about being able to play in every unraised pot in an hilo PL game and kill the game is absurd. Either that or the game you are in is full of complete idiots who are willing to pay you off with less than the nuts.


You needn't take offense to these comments. They are the very definition between an Omaha fish and a winning player.