Large "Pot Building" Raises

In a recent thread, Mr. Peterson advised that NL players who routinely raise about 3x the BB when they play a hand are likely to be tough or at least aggressive opponents. I recently played in an online NL game (.5 & 1.0 blinds) in which a few players were routinely calling or making preflop raises of 6x the BB with non-premium hands. Are these players making a mistake? How deep would the money have to be to justify such a large "pot building" raise (or even smaller pot building raises)? Couldn't this practice be easily exploited by short-stacks going all in when they pick up a real hand?

You said "Couldn't this practice be easily exploited by short-stacks going all in when they pick up a real hand?"


A short stack with a "real" hand doesn't exploit anyone but themselves. The worst thing that can happen to you, yes worse than getiing drawn out on with all your chips in the middle, is getting a monster hand and winning $20 while two pair 9's and 2's wins the side pot of $350.


May I ask what your definition of a non-premium preflop hand is? They may have different starting criteria.


To answer one other question, if these players are raising or calling 6x the BB pre flop with poor starting hands they are making very very big mistakes. it doesn't matter if it is 1x, 2x,3x or 6x the big bet. This is a game you should be able to smoke and buy a lot of good sized pots after the flop.


Good Luck in this game Mike,


Jimbo

Well i meant for a beginner they would be tough to play. This is because i think beginners are best to play a game where they can frequently see the flop in unraised pots, and assess how they lose their stack from there.


Tough players are quick to play back at such an individual, and usually don't need much of a hand to do so.

May I ask what your definition of a non-premium preflop hand is?


They were raising/calling with hands as weak as 54s, 22, and QTo.


if these players are raising or calling 6x the BB pre flop with poor starting hands they are making very very big mistakes. it doesn't matter if it is 1x, 2x,3x or 6x the big bet


I assume you meant to say "big blind" in your second sentence? I agree that calling or making raises with garbage hands is generally a mistake. I am less sure of how much is reasonable to pay to see a multiway flop with decent implied odds hands like 66 or J9s. I know the answer depends in part on the ratios of the bet size to stack sizes. I'd appreciate guidance in this matter.


The worst thing that can happen to you, yes worse than getiing drawn out on with all your chips in the middle, is getting a monster hand and winning $20


There are no monster hands before the flop. It seems to me that a short-stack could exploit those who are paying 5x or 6x the BB for any playable hand by pushing all-in (e.g., for 30x the BB or more) when they catch AK, AQ, or a medium to large pair.


This is a game you should be able to smoke and buy a lot of good sized pots after the flop.


I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I'm not sure it is deserved; I have little experience with big bet cash game play. I don't understand your statement about buying pots. Are you suggesting it would be a good idea to make large flop bets or raises with weak hands to steal from these opponents? I would think that players who are routinely paying 6x the BB to see the flop would tend to be relatively tenacious after the flop. Wouldn't it be preferable to try to win these pots BEFORE the flop when you hold a good head-up hand?


Regards,


Mike