worse to be BOS fan or ATL? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

nolanfan34

10-12-2004, 12:34 AM

Your friend is wrong. It's probably disappointing, sure, but it's predictable, because they seem to fall apart in the playoffs every year. Atlanta also doesn't play in a division with the Yankees, like the Bo Sox, so they don't have to suffer through that frustration.

I'd say the disappointment for an Atlanta fan is like a yearly slow ache, whereas a Red Sox fan gets to feel sharp, jabbing pains.

Dynasty

10-12-2004, 01:14 AM

If you live in New England, you know what it's like to endure both kinds of pain. The NHL Boston Bruins had a long streak of making the playoffs but haven't won the Stanley Cup since 1972. For a while (but not lately), the Bruins would make the playoffs, advance, but then miss the big win. They've lost in the Stanley Cup finals four times since that 1972 win.

Boston is a baseball and hockey town. So, the Bruins are a big deal there.

What kind of losing is harder to deal with? The Red Sox kind.

nothumb

10-12-2004, 01:53 AM

I grew up in the Southeast (North Carolina) before there were the Devil Rays or the Marlins, so I was by definition a Braves fan. Rick Bragg (an excellent journalist and Southerner) wrote a very good article recently, either in SI or GQ, where he explained the simple joy of sitting down on a summer afternoon in the South and watching the Braves, more than likely, cream somebody. I recall doing this just about every summer and my memories of it are not laced with the trauma that seems inherent to being a Sox fan (which I also am and have been for years - different leagues, so I could root for both.)

NT

scott1

10-12-2004, 02:34 AM

Boston. Not even close.

drudman

10-12-2004, 08:11 AM

Hear me.

Being 21 years old, I have known nothing but Braves postseason. From the first picture ever snapped of me in the delivery room, my mother holding me, both of us wearing Braves hats. At 8 years old, I started to watch baseball with my father. The Braves had been so bad for so long. But my heroes became Glavine, Smoltz, Avery, Pendleton, Gant, Nixon, Blauser, Lemke, et. al. And they took us as close as a team can get, closer maybe even than the Sox got in game 6. After an NLCS miracle against the Pirates, falling to the Twins in 10 innings in Game 7, 1-0.

A year later, a year older, The Braves took us all the way again. And again, against the Pirates, trailing by a score in the 9th inning of Game 7 with 2 out, one of baseball's great finishes transpired, with Sid Bream beating the throw, and sending home the veteran Andy Van Slyke for the second year, and a young Barry Bonds (before steroids).

'93, playoffs again.

'94.

1995 is the best argument against me. How can it be worse when you've won one? I'll admit, it may be the best moment of my life so far, the celebration, and the feeling of getting it done.

Now? I wish it had never happened.

That one red pennant in a line of 13 yellow ones is a scar. A hurtful reminder of that which is annually not accomplished. The joy it brought serves now only as a stark contrast to the mocking disappointment of 9 years in a row, now counting, of postseason with no rings.

If I were 60 years old, then I would say that being a Sox fan is worse.

But at 21, I would rather be a Sox fan, who knows that there is something magic about their team, that when they finally get it, it will be pure sweet satisfaction.

To win it again for me would only be a relief of pain. A glass of water to wash the bitter taste from my mouth.

There is no mystery, no hope, no excitement. The Braves front-office will make whatever moves are necessary. They will win about 95 games again in 2005. Go to the playoffs. And probably lose.

Just as they have for more than half of the time I've been alive.

Lazymeatball

10-12-2004, 08:36 AM

So what you're saying is that it's worse to be a Braves fan than it is to be a Red Sox fan because your team is predictable and boring. By that argument being a Phillies fan would be the worst, because whoever talks about them doing anything?

Face it, you've grown acustomeed to being able to watch October baseball every year for half your life. That alone is something to be thankful for. And your argument that actually winning once makes all those other misses that much harder holds no water.

mmbt0ne

10-12-2004, 10:52 AM

It's also worth throwing in there, that ever since Ted Turner got rid of the Braves, the organization has begun settling for mediocrity (postseason mediocrity, but mediocrity none the less). I wish that the Braves would spend like the Red Sox, reach out to the fans they used to have like the Red Sox, and maybe give us a ray of hope every once in a while like the Red Sox.
Does this mean being a Braves fan is worse? Of course not, I was born in Maine, so I've been a fan of all New England teams for my whole life (except the Bruins, I never got into NHL hockey with the Black Bears being my only home state representative). It should be said though, that it would be nice, if at the start of every year, the Braves fans actually felt like there was a chance at making a run at the series like most Boston fans do.

ThaSaltCracka

10-12-2004, 10:54 AM

ATL has worst fans, but its worse being a Boston fan I think.

SomethingClever

10-12-2004, 12:56 PM

Hmm, sounds like being a Blazers fan.

They won just before I was born in 1977. Then, they made the playoffs for about 20 years in a row but never won and often collapsed in horrifying fashion.

Oh, they also get arrested all the time and back in 1984, the front office passed on Jordan for a guy named Sam Bowie.

Plus, it's the only major team in town.

You really can't top being a Blazers fan.

drudman

10-12-2004, 02:15 PM

I at least gave a few reasons for my "one ring is worse than none" argument. Were you going to give any for your response to it?

Uston

10-12-2004, 02:18 PM

You forgot to mention the yearly drubbings UConn would put on Boston College over the last decade and a half.

ThaSaltCracka

10-12-2004, 02:20 PM

there is no argument against that. One ring is better than none, to argue otherwise is silly.

PokerNoob

10-12-2004, 02:30 PM

The big difference between the Bosox and the Braves is that for about a 25 year stretch, the Braves were simply horrible. When by some miracle, they made the playoffs, it only led to embarrasment. In '69 they got bounced by the Mets, "on paper" an inferior team. In '82, the Cards beat them in three and they sank back into oblivion. Until 1991, the Braves only had three seasons they didn't finish double digits games behind and out of the race by the all star break. We had a few hometown heros like Neikro and Dale Murphy, but more often we had Bob Horner and his navuncular bone or a big trade for a dead armed Len Barker.

Atlanta now is a big city mostly populated by people from somewhere else. People like their team they had growing up, but will frontrun when the Braves are good, or now just bash because of the recent postseason failures. They suck. They are not true fans. They never endured the generation of hopelessness. I would rather have some hope each year that Scheurholtz will cobble together a team and maybe Bobby will figure out the X's and O's for us to win a postseason series (my God, how can you leave Reitsma in to pitch to Bagwell?), even if it does lead to mostly disappointment. But I do remember having no hope at all, and this is much better. For a few more years anyway.

Lazymeatball

10-12-2004, 02:30 PM

1 > 0

you can't argue with that

bwana devil

10-12-2004, 02:44 PM

anyone old enough to remember the '86 World Series wouldn't even ask that question.

I still want to throw up every time I begin to see it on tv. I have yet to see the infamous replay. I have successfully changed the channel for 18 years every time I see it start.

Vagos

10-12-2004, 03:35 PM

1 ring is worse than none? I think this is nonsense. I mean, I think I can comment on this. I'm a die hard Sox fan and for football, a diehard Packers fan. I started following the Packers around 92-93. They finally won in the 96-97 season. Since then, it has been nothing but disappointment, as I painfully watch Favre try and go out on top. 2 years ago, undefeated in Lambeau in the playoffs, this young kid named Vick just makes them look silly and knocks them out in the first game. Last year, 4th and 26 or whatever it was that McNabb converted against them...so bad. This year, off to a 1-4 start and Favre is all banged up.
THAT being said, the Red Sox are still the biggest heartbreakers in sports, bar none. Green Bay can get knocked out in the NFC CHampionship for the next 15 years and it still wouldn't be as painful as watching the Sox each year.
Ok, now for our slogan, but this time I reeeeally mean it for 2004. THIS IS THE YEAR!
-Andy

Uston

10-12-2004, 04:02 PM

You really derive no pleasure from any season that doesn't result in a title?

drudman

10-12-2004, 04:28 PM

I think that this is my point... no. Spring training means nothing, the regular season is spring training, and the NLDS IS the regular season. This is why the Braves used to pack Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium with crazy people waving foam tomahawks and singing a demeaning faux Indian chant, and now can't sell out Game 5 of the NLDS in Turner Field.

Everyone keeps saying that 1 ring is better than none, but few have really given me any reason to believe that my argument isn't true. I maintain, I wish they had never won it. Then at least, we'd be playing to reach something. It feels right now like we aren't playing to win the Series, it feels like we're playing to not blow it again. And until that changes, I think we will continue to blow it over and over again.

drudman

10-12-2004, 04:30 PM

I think you failed to make a comment about why you think 1 is better than none. Although I believe that you have indeed felt a fraction of what I have had to.

ThaSaltCracka

10-12-2004, 04:41 PM

suppose you are a child, and every year for Christmas your grandma gets you a sweater but she always hints that you may get something better. Well one year you get a brand new PS2 and you are totally stoked, however every year afterwards you get a sweater.

Now suppose you are again a child and again your g-ma hints at getting something better, but instead every year all you get from g-ma is a sweater, and you never get the PS2.

Which one of these kids would you rather be?

kpux

10-12-2004, 05:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You forgot to mention the yearly drubbings UConn would put on Boston College over the last decade and a half.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're talking about basketball, right? I mean, you've gotta be...

Anyways, I can see how some might see being a Braves fan as worse. Has anyone seen the Seinfeld episode where Jerry and Elaine are boarding a plane, and they have one first-class ticket and one coach, and Jerry says something like, "I'll take the first class ticket, I've flown first-class, I can't go back to coach." Despite the silly comparison, it's something akin to that. The Braves have had the glory of winning the World Series. They know what it's like to be at the top, and to almost be at the top every year after that would have to be complete misery.

However, I'm a Sox fan (though not a die-hard by any means), and it's better to have won the World Series and lost than to never have won the World Series at all. Boone deep to left. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Of course, the funny thing about all of this is that nobody is making anybody be a fan of any team. Baseball should be a source of entertainment, not misery.

daryn

10-12-2004, 05:07 PM

it's not misery. we love the sox, and we experience the ups and downs. but nobody is sorry they're a red sox fan. it goes deeper than that. nobody in boston would trade places and become a yankees fan, despite the yankees unparalleled success in baseball.

kpux

10-12-2004, 05:14 PM

I was talking more about drudman's attitude specifically towards the Braves rather than the mentaltiy of Red Sox fans.

ThaSaltCracka

10-12-2004, 05:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
nobody in boston would trade places and become a yankees fan, despite the yankees unparalleled success in baseball.

[/ QUOTE ] Why do you say this? Let's be honest most people are fans of a particular team for various reasons, some are place of birth/residence, parents/friends, or even based upon how good a team is or which players play on that team. How can you say with certainty that people wouldn't trade places with Yankees fans.

It seems to me there is one main reason to like the Yankess and one main reason to hate them, and that reason is the same for both. The Yankees always win, they always have and always will. The money may be one thing(which IMO is absolutely stupid, because many teams spend a lot of money), but the overlying reason people hate the Yankees is because they win.

bwana devil

10-12-2004, 05:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How can you say with certainty that people wouldn't trade places with Yankees fans.

[/ QUOTE ]

I forget the orgin of the quote, but someone said "being a Yankees fan is about exciting as rooting for Microsoft."

why bother?

Uston

10-12-2004, 05:23 PM

You're talking about basketball, right? I mean, you've gotta be...

Yeah, and it's too bad. In two or three years the football beatings would be just as impressive.

daryn

10-12-2004, 05:28 PM

it's the same reason why people chant yankees suck. we know the yankees win win win, we know how many championships they have, etc.

but that doesn't change a thing. the yankees really do suck. nobody would switch sides for any number of championships.

ThaSaltCracka

10-12-2004, 05:31 PM

I misunderstood you, sorry, and I am sorry to say but the Yankees in fact do not suck.

ThaSaltCracka

10-12-2004, 05:34 PM

I always root for Microsoft, they provide millions of jobs to people all over the country, and several hundred thousand in my neck of the woods.

daryn

10-12-2004, 05:35 PM

also i hate NYC

and LA /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

ThaSaltCracka

10-12-2004, 05:37 PM

never been to NYC

Lazymeatball

10-12-2004, 06:17 PM

The argument over 1 > 0 or not is for the most part subjective from your point of view. I objectively maintain that 1 is a greater number than 0. If you are going to discount that, than logical arguments fly out the window here. I can't argue how you should feel.

tolbiny

10-12-2004, 06:43 PM

1995 is the best argument against me. How can it be worse when you've won one? I'll admit, it may be the best moment of my life so far, the celebration, and the feeling of getting it done.

From the bottom of my heart you can GO [censored] YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE AN [censored].
FUCKOFF
why don't you try out a city that hasn't won a championship, in any sport since the year before the super bowl. Your an [censored].
regretting winning the '95 world series?
it crushed us.
you red sox and atlanta and seattle fans can go [censored] yourselves.
The drive
the fumble
Jordan
Jordan again
the '95 wolrd series
the first team ever to lose game 7 of the world series when leading entering the 9th inning.
Ohh yeah, and the poorest city in america right now.
go [censored] yourself

tolbiny

10-12-2004, 07:00 PM

You ever watch the movie Major League? Hilarious movie about a baseball team that hadn't won a penant in 40 years. The owner was trying to move the team to Florida. Does any one outsidde of cleveland recall that in 1992 there was serious talk about moving the Indians to Florida- a charter member of the american league moving after nearly a century in the city? To prevent this the city voted for a new stadium for a team that hadn't even made the playoffs in 20 years.
Our lineup?

Kenny lofton CF- best leadoff hitter in the majors from '94-'97
Omar Vizquel-SS 9 time gold golve shortstop who deserves to be a hall of famer
carlos Bearga-2b only person ever to hit a home run from both sides of the plate in the same inning- considered the second best hitting 2nd baseman behind robbie alomar.
Albert Belle-Lf an almost lock for the Hall with out a degenerative hip problem
Jim Thome- 3BYou've heard of him right?
Manny ramierez-RF see above.
Eddie murry- DHhall of famer with 500 Hr and 3,000 hits.
Sandy alomar- all star catcher and rookie of the year.
Paul sorento- 1B, the nobody in their linep hit around .280 with 25 homeruns and 80 odd rbi.

Our pitching staff included
Orel hershiser- herd of him right?
dennis martinez- him to?
chuck nagy- 10 straight seasons of 15+ wins
Jose Mesa- set a record that year for consecutive saves.

Your Braves beat this team, and you wish it never happened?
Your an ass.

tolbiny

10-12-2004, 07:03 PM

"I have successfully changed the channel for 18 years every time I see it start."

Not a chance- i have seen "the fumble" on espn classic three times this year. Have yet to turn it off.
The only thing i turn off is the 9th inning of the 1997 world series. That's to much pain.
I can even stand to watch Art Modell's interviews after "the Fumble".
You want sports pain- we got sports pain, we can rumble with anyone anywhere.

ThaSaltCracka

10-12-2004, 07:13 PM

yeah, Cleveland sure does suck. Those bastards knocked out my M's in 95!

tolbiny

10-12-2004, 07:20 PM

"Although I believe that you have indeed felt a fraction of what I have had to."

A fraction? You have NO IDEA what some fans have to go through.
How about this- The Browns are amoung the oldest Teams in the NFL- the last championship they won was the year BEFORE the super bowl was concieved. In the mid 1990's Art model decided that haveing the 3rd highest attendance in the league wasn't good enough and moved the team.
Watch the team you love move and then win a super bowl.
Anyone who thinks that going 1 for 4 in championships is worse that going 0 for 4 is just plain wrong.

ThaSaltCracka

10-12-2004, 07:22 PM

alright, are all Cleveland fans whiny bitches like you?

tolbiny

10-12-2004, 07:23 PM

"yeah, Cleveland sure does suck"

At least someone appreciates us...
when ESPN had the 10 most heartbreaking sports moments in the past 25 years (or what ever it was) i think that 4 were clevelands... and that wasn't counting that fucker modell moving the browns.

ThaSaltCracka

10-12-2004, 07:25 PM

I believe Cleveland was #1 on the list of most tortured sports cities according to ESPN.com. Seattle was #6 IIRC.

tolbiny

10-12-2004, 07:28 PM

"alright, are all Cleveland fans whiny bitches like you?"

Yes /images/graemlins/smile.gif

But do you think i am going to let someone get away with saying they wished they hadn't won a WS at all, let alone one against the Tribe? Come on now, its damn insulting to hear. Aslo i needed like 6 posts just to make sure that i listed all the travesties... i still haven't even mentioned the Sports Illustrated cover predicting the WS for the Tribe followed by a spring training baoting accident that killed two of our pitchers and ended a 3rd's career...
i think we lost 106 games that year.

ThaSaltCracka

10-12-2004, 07:29 PM

life sucks man.

tolbiny

10-12-2004, 07:29 PM

yay.

tolbiny

10-12-2004, 07:31 PM

Nah, life is good...

being a cleveland sports fan sucks.... i think this [censored] just builds up untill someone pretends like they got it worse.

drudman

10-12-2004, 09:01 PM

Wow, if you really wanted to just vent your Cleveland Sports frustrations, you could have started a new thread. This topic is about Boston and Atlanta. Plus it's about their baseball teams. Braves are the only thing keeping Atlanta from still being called (in 1991 by Sports Illustrated) "Losersville USA". The Flames bolted to Canada, the Hawks suck, Falcons suck... and the Braves had not won a pennant in quite some time either.

In any case, I haven't seen any evidence or heard any argument to make me change my mind.

Good luck Boston, I really want you to get it this year, although my money is on NYY to lose to the Cards.

lastchance

10-12-2004, 09:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, if you really wanted to just vent your Cleveland Sports frustrations, you could have started a new thread. This topic is about Boston and Atlanta. Plus it's about their baseball teams. Braves are the only thing keeping Atlanta from still being called (in 1991 by Sports Illustrated) "Losersville USA". The Flames bolted to Canada, the Hawks suck, Falcons suck... and the Braves had not won a pennant in quite some time either.

In any case, I haven't seen any evidence or heard any argument to make me change my mind.

Good luck Boston, I really want you to get it this year, although my money is on NYY to lose to the Cards.

[/ QUOTE ]
Falcons suck? Not this year. Teams in the NFL can turn things around in a hurry, and when you have Mike Vick, I don't see how you can suck.

Dynasty

10-12-2004, 09:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
...when you have Mike Vick, I don't see how you can suck.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a lot easier to suck with Vick on your team this year than with the average NFL QB. In five games this year, Vick is averaging a pitiful 160.2 yards/game. He just isn't playing very well.

MarkL444

10-12-2004, 11:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
he claims it's a "different type of disappointment".

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Its actually very similar disappointment. A different kind of disappointment is being a Tigers fan. I have the great honor of knowing my team is out of it one month into the season, year after year. I dont get any exciting division/wild card races. Certainly not the excitement of a postseason game. Instead, I get to watch game after game of a mediocre team and hope that some of our younger "talent" improves into a foundation that a team could be built upon. All the while listening to red sox fan complaining about how bad he has it.

tolbiny

10-12-2004, 11:01 PM

I was going to stay away from this thread entirely, untill you said that you wished the Braves hadn't wont the world series in 1995. you yourself said that this was one of your best memories in your entire life- this is what sports is about, rooting for a team your whole life and then enjoying one or two championship seasons where everything falls your way. Winning a chmapionshitp wont erase all the years you didn't, but it sure as hell should ease it quite a bit.
There is no "proof" that can be given that winning a championship is better than not winning a championship, since emotions are personal- but if you can't look back on one of the happiest moments of you life with joy, then i feel sorry for you.

I still remember Tony Pena home run against boston in the 11th- in 1995 with happiness.