KQ in BB, multiway on connected board

[House-Lion]

Considder most participating players in this hand as slightly to very loose except for the table-rock and the somewhat diciplined House-Lion.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: House-Lion is our Hero sitting in BB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button <font color="purple">(rock)</font> calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font> <font color="green">Try betting it or hoping for a bet from late position and then going for a check-raise to try to knock out gut-shots? </font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP3 calls, CO folds, rock calls, SB folds, Hero calls. <font color="green"> Check-raise-plan whiffed. </font>

Turn: (5 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP3 calls, rock folds, Hero calls. <font color="green"> I'm starting to feel like a callingstation here. </font>

River: (8 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font> <font color="green">That doesn't look like a good card. </font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks. <font color="green">???? Obviously everybody fears the straight. </font>

Final Pot: 8 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 8 BB, between Hero, MP1 and MP3.
Results in white below: <font color="white">results will maybe be posted later. </font>
<font color="green">I would like to get some input on how to play this hand. I'm sure there must be plenty of alternatives. </font>

[J.R.]

check-raise the turn.

I don't care for a preflop raise with KQ after limpers in the BB.

[MastiffPaul]

I raise here preflop when I think the other players at the table are routinely limping in with worse hands. I probably raise KQo preflop too often, though.

I would bet out on the flop. I do not understand why you would want to checkraise here.

I would favor betting the turn instead of check-raising... but the more I think about it, the more likely it is that MP1 will continue to show aggression. If your goal is to get more money in the pot because you believe you have the best hand, or to knock out at least the rock, then a checkraise appears +EV at first blush. By checkraising, you will also be representing a slowplayed straight, which may encourage folds on the river.

Bet the river.

[MoreWineII]

Raise PF? Nah, probably not unless the table was routinely limping with total garbage.

[digdeep]

Why no bet on the flop? No check raise on the flop or the turn? Why all of the calling?

Thanks

[WarmonkEd]

I think I would've just bet out on the flop. I don't like looking for a checkraise when you don't know where the bet is coming from or if it'll even happen.

But since you called, I think I definitely would've c/r the turn. Might as well make any draws pay double.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't care for a preflop raise with KQ after limpers in the BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm incredulous! /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[chesspain]

This seems like a ridiculously easy bet on the flop, with TP/VG kicker and a gutshot.

[crockett]

O.k. Maybe I need some re-adjusting here. I might be becoming a lag. I really am shocked by all the thoughts here.

#1 I raise this pre-flop, almost always.

#2 If I did just check like you did I would definately have C/R or bet out.

[ QUOTE ]
Check-raise-plan whiffed.

[/ QUOTE ] Why? I realize it would be cool to face everyone cold with 2 bets but you very well have the best hand here (you have TPTK assumming no one raised AK, KK pre-flop) AND you still have a gut-shot draw to improve if you are behind to 2-pair.

Turn. After my C/R, if I wasn't 3-bet I would lead. But doing what you did I would lead as well and maybe MP1 will raise you and push everyone else out.

River: I have top 2 pair!!! Bet, bet, bet.

O.k. now I'm going to look at the results and see what a fool I've made out of myself. But one thing I know if I do end up winnning this hand the pot is a lot larger when I do than with this line.

[Victor]

I usually raise this preflop with 3 limpers unless they are the type to limp with AK/AQ so 4 limpers would be marginal. I would guess you gain some EV by raising here but it does make it a bit harder to play postflop.

On the flop: Going for the checkraise is ok but there is no gaurantee that a LP will bet this flop. Betting out is probably better. It has the advantage that if someone raises later with K10 or a flush draw you can 3bet which is super profitable.

On the turn: The way you played it you should checkraise this turn. You almost always have the best hand here with 3 outs to gutshot (minus the flush card) and 2pair outs. You have a ton of equity and are not losing that much if your opp has 2pair because of your gutshot/2pair draw. Also, with the coordinated board it is unlikely that you will get 3bet here (unless opp has Q10). Also, you gain a lot from the other gutshots by charging the 10 a steep price and freerolling the Q.

On the river. Its very hard to bet here, especially the way you played it. You really have no idea where you are since you are out of position. Still, you can easily put MP1 on top pair or even 2pair. Then put MP3 on a flush draw and go ahead and bet it. I may just be saying this because it was checked around so I already know the outcome. Actually, I can tolerate checking here because if MP1 bets and MP3 raises you have an easy laydown.

[StellarWind]

I've stopped raising KQo preflop in unfavorable situations like this.

In any event, making an otherwise borderline raise with a rock voluntarily in the hand is poor.

Trying to checkraise an unraised flop with a rock on the button is beyond my comprehension. This is an easy bet.

[ QUOTE ]
Check-raise-plan whiffed.

[/ QUOTE ]
What do you mean? Didn't the Party client display the raise button? You gambled by checking the flop and you won. How can you possibly not pull the trigger? You have a great hand: probable best with many outs. There are three players calling bets out there. Take their money!

Many players on this forum seemed to be obsessed with confronting their opponents with two bets so that "it will be a mistake for them to call". Sometimes these same players miss the obvious. When you fail to raise the best hand in a situation like this the Fundamental Theorem says you are making a huge mistake. Your opponents just made all the money you failed to charge them. Since I would guess you win this hand 3/4 of the time, you just gave your opponents 2 SB.

Bet the turn, checkraise the turn, bet the river. Make some money with your hand. If anyone folds, that's cool too.

[bdk3clash]

I raise KQs in this spot and not KQo. KQo is like the one hand I almost always raise preflop but don't raise out of the blinds.

I can't believe you didn't checkraise this flop. I would have bet out because a "rock" doesn't autobet in late position like some players do, and you didn't say that any of the other players made it likely that this flop wouldn't have been checked around.

Once you check-call the flop, way underrepresenting your hand, for god's sake checkraise the turn.

Once you check-call the flop and check-call the turn, bet the river, but I'm probably biased because I know everyone checked behind.