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pzhon

10-11-2004, 09:21 AM

The following series of about 20 hands happened when the big stack sat out in a PokerStars SNG. We were down to the final 3. Normally, when a player sits out, the player has a relatively small stack. Here, the big stack contributed a substantial amount of chips to many pots, and we either had to fight for those chips or blind down faster than the absent player.

There was an ante of t25.

Hand 88. Big Blind is t400 (3 handed)
Hero (t4235)
Button (Absent_Player) (t5865)
SB (Villain) (t3400)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Button (Absent_Player) folds, SB (Villain) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t875) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Villain bets t400, Hero folds.

No showdown. Villain wins t875. 

Hand 89. Big Blind is t400 (3 handed)
Hero (t3810)
BB (Absent_Player) (t5840)
Button (Villain) (t3850)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Button (Villain) raises to t800, Hero calls t600, BB (Absent_Player) folds.

Flop: (t2075) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Hero checks, Villain bets t400, Hero calls t400.

Turn: (t2875) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Hero checks, Villain checks.

River: (t2875) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Hero bets t800, Villain folds.

No showdown. Hero wins t2875. 

Hand 90. Big Blind is t400 (3 handed)
Hero (t5460)
SB (Absent_Player) (t5415)
BB (Villain) (t2625)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero calls t400, SB (Absent_Player) folds, BB (Villain) raises to t1200, Hero calls t800.

Flop: (t2675) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif
Villain bets t800, Hero folds.

No showdown. Villain wins t2675. 

Hand 91. Big Blind is t400 (3 handed)
Hero (t4235)
Button (Absent_Player) (t5190)
SB (Villain) (t4075)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Button (Absent_Player) folds, SB (Villain) raises to t800, Hero raises to t4235, SB (Villain) folds.

No showdown. Hero wins t1675. 

Hand 92. Big Blind is t400 (3 handed)
Hero (t5085)
BB (Absent_Player) (t5165)
Button (Villain) (t3250)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Button (Villain) raises to t1225, Hero folds, BB (Absent_Player) folds.

Villain chooses to show 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Villain wins t1075. 

Hand 93. Big Blind is t400 (3 handed)
Hero (t4860)
SB (Absent_Player) (t4740)
BB (Villain) (t3900)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero calls t400, SB (Absent_Player) folds, BB (Villain) raises to t1200, Hero calls t800.

Flop: (t2675) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Villain checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t2675) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif
Villain bets t1200, Hero folds.

No showdown. Villain wins t2675. 

Hand 94. Big Blind is t400 (3 handed)
Hero (t3635)
Button (Absent_Player) (t4515)
SB (Villain) (t5350)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Button (Absent_Player) folds, SB (Villain) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t875) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Villain bets t400, Hero raises to t800, Villain calls t400.

Turn: (t2475) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Villain bets t400, Hero calls t400.

River: (t3275) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Villain bets t1200, Hero folds.

No showdown. Villain wins t3275. 

Hand 95. Big Blind is t400 (3 handed)
Hero (t2010)
BB (Absent_Player) (t4490)
Button (Villain) (t7000)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Button (Villain) raises to t800, Hero folds, BB (Absent_Player) folds.

No showdown. Villain wins t875. 
In retrospect, I think I should have pushed. The villain's raises meant nothing, and maybe he would fold a hand with which he should call.

Hand 96. Big Blind is t400 (3 handed)
Hero (t1785)
SB (Absent_Player) (t4065)
BB (Villain) (t7650)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero raises to t1785, SB (Absent_Player) folds, BB (Villain) calls t1385.

Flop: (t3795) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Turn: (t3795) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif

River: (t3795) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Villain has Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (one pair, sixes).
Hero has Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (two pair, eights and sixes).
Hero wins t3795. 

Hand 97. Big Blind is t400 (3 handed)
Hero (t3795)
Button (Absent_Player) (t3840)
SB (Villain) (t5865)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Button (Absent_Player) folds, SB (Villain) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t875) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Villain bets t400, Hero calls t400.

Turn: (t1675) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Villain bets t400, Hero calls t400.

River: (t2475) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif
Villain bets t400, Hero raises to t1200, Villain folds.

No showdown. Hero wins t3275. 

Hand 98. Big Blind is t400 (3 handed)
Hero (t5445)
BB (Absent_Player) (t3815)
Button (Villain) (t4240)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Button (Villain) raises to t800, Hero folds, BB (Absent_Player) folds.

No showdown. Villain wins t1075. 

Villain, "Do you want to blind him out?"

Hand 99. Big Blind is t400 (3 handed)
Hero (t5220)
SB (Absent_Player) (t3390)
BB (Villain) (t4890)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero raises to t1200, SB (Absent_Player) folds, BB (Villain) folds.

No showdown. Hero wins t1075. 

Hero, "We shouldn't discuss that."
Villain, "bs he is just sittin waiting to cash"

Hand 100. Big Blind is t400 (3 handed)
Hero (t5870)
Button (Absent_Player) (t3165)
SB (Villain) (t4465)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Button (Absent_Player) folds, SB (Villain) raises to t1600, Hero folds.

No showdown. Villain wins t875. 

Villain, "he shouls have to play"
Hero, "It would be collusion for us to come to a spoken agreement."

Hand 101. Big Blind is t400 (3 handed)
Hero (t5445)
BB (Absent_Player) (t3140)
Button (Villain) (t4915)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Button (Villain) folds, Hero completes, BB (Absent_Player) folds.

No showdown. Hero wins t875. 

 Villain, "no it wouldn't"

Hand 102 Big Blind is t400 (3 handed)
Hero (t5895)
SB (Absent_Player) (t2715)
BB (Villain) (t4890)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero raises to t5895, SB (Absent_Player) folds, BB (Villain) folds.

No showdown. Hero wins t1075. 

Villain, "fold your sb and i will to"
Villain, "it will force him to play"
Hero, "No agreement, sorry."

Hand 103. Big Blind is t400 (3 handed)
Hero (t6545)
Button (Absent_Player) (t2490)
SB (Villain) (t4465)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Button (Absent_Player) folds, SB (Villain) folds.

No showdown. Hero wins t675. 

Hand 104. Big Blind is t600 (3 handed), ante t50
Hero (t6795)
BB (Absent_Player) (t2465)
Button (Villain) (t4240)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Button (Villain) raises to t1200, Hero raises to t6745, BB (Absent_Player) folds, Button (Villain) calls t2990 (All-In).

Flop: (t9130) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Turn: (t9130) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif

River: (t9130) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Hero has Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif (high card, ace).
Villain has K/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (high card, king).
Outcome: Hero wins t9130. 

Hero, "gg"

Absent_Player stayed out and took second.

The Yugoslavian

10-11-2004, 09:53 AM

Good job adjusting and taking advantage of the situation!

I've had a situation HU when I basically snuck into second place, had almost no stack and suddenly the big stack vanished. I just kept stealing blinds until he finally returned and had almost no chips left. (Although I'm sure this happens to a lot of people given enough SNGs).

I like how 'villian' claimed that agreeing to steal the big stacks blinds wasn't collusion! That is really funny! Of course, I could see that situation coming up and both players implicitly colluding to steal the blinds without verbally agreeing.

bugstud

10-11-2004, 10:07 AM

your play wasn't so great on these hands. I would not be open limping with crap in these situations.

PrayingMantis

10-11-2004, 10:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Good job adjusting and taking advantage of the situation!

[/ QUOTE ]

How exactly did hero adjust and took advantage of the situation?

pzhon, what was your strategy in this unique situation?

I actually don't quite see why did you play certain hands the way you did. I would apply much more pressure on the other player (if I'm going to play any hand), especially since he (as it becomes clear later) wants to out-survive the sitting out player.

These hands specifically:

Hand 90 - why do you limp, then call a raise PF with this? it's a garbage hand... Why not play it strong PF, if at all? Stealing the blinds in this stage and this situation looks most important to me.

Hand 93 - again - why do you limp in? and call a raise? And then check the flop?

Hand 94 - He limps once again (why not raise him out in some of the hands he limps in?) What's the purpose of the miniraise on the flop? He won't fold... and it's not a hand to value bet.

And there are some more examples, IMO. I don't think you fully exploited this situation.

The Yugoslavian

10-11-2004, 11:45 AM

Ok, I'll admit to scanning the history and not really taking a good look at it until you caught me Mantis -- so now I have had to take a closer look and learned much more in the process.

On my second look, I definitely don't think that pzhon took advantage of the situation. I think he could have been much more aggressive and gone at the villian. The villian was definitely being the aggressor and very likely was playing the better 3-handed game.

Also, it is definitely incorrect for me to say "good job adjusting' when I don't know how pzhon usually plays 3-handed. My thinking at the time was that pzhon was seeing flops and trying to lay a trap for the villian (who seemed possibly too agressive). However, the villian seemed to be at least capable of backing down when reraised (hands 91 & 97). So, he wouldn't necessarily just walk into a trap as many maniacs would (I think it could work if you have enough chips for the blinds and are getting bet out of or reraised allin every pot you contest). In fact, the few times you do bet at the flop, he was generally backing down -- it would seem that this needs to be exploited.

So, if you are limping or calling your way into so many flops, you need to be out there betting them and taking them down -- there were several instances where the villian checked, you checked and he raised promting you to fold. Why are you in pots with sub-standard cards if you aren't planning on betting the flop and driving the villian out?

pzhon

10-11-2004, 11:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
your play wasn't so great on these hands. I would not be open limping with crap in these situations.

[/ QUOTE ]
You may be right that limping was not good. I also felt I made a clear mistake by not raising with Kxo. These were my reasons:

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif The absent player was contributing a lot of dead money to the pot. That greatly encourages loose play.
/images/graemlins/diamond.gif That the absent player would contribute dead money on future hands discourages risking getting knocked out.
/images/graemlins/diamond.gif I felt that I could steal post-flop quite frequently, that my opponent would not call a serious bet without a pair. That opportunity argues against stealing preflop.
/images/graemlins/diamond.gif I hoped that limping preflop would encourage my opponent to limp, which would increase the chance that the absent player would take third. I thought it was funny that my opponent suggested blinding the absent player down after he had made several tiny raises in a row. These raises just built the pot, increasing the chance one of us would get knocked out before the absent player.

Though I have played on the bubble with a large absent stack, this situation felt new to me, so I wouldn't be surprised if my strategy were wrong. That's part of the reason I posted it here.

The Yugoslavian

10-11-2004, 02:25 PM

Phzon,

If your intention was to limp to the flop and then buy the pots why weren't you raising post-flop more often? From my count you took 2 pots post flop while the villian took 4 (at least a couple times after you checked it to the turn). I definitely think you can outplay the villian post-flop because he seemed to slightly weak in that area, however, you were even weaker!

Maybe putting him to the test more often would be the way to go? I agree that the dead money encourages looser starting hand requirements (b/c you are essentially heads up), however, you probably should be betting or folding rather than calling or limping.

poboy

10-11-2004, 05:49 PM

It all worked out in the end but I think this could have been even easier for you. This situation is very similar to HU play, and we all know aggression pays off HU. I think a little more aggression on your part would have stopped the villain from raising so often pf. You stated that you were limping in hopes of encouraging him to limp, I find raising accomplishes this much better. I've also found that calling pf raises only encourages more raising, I think if you're going to play the hand you should re-raise and take back control of the hand. Give him something to think about when he's trying to steal from you, if he thinks you may re-raise he will be less likely to try and steal with garbage. JMO

dogsballs

10-11-2004, 07:32 PM

i just skimmed the last few hands, but i thought villain played better than you did. You were too passive.

jmho