O8 PL - Wimpy Play?

Home game, dealer choice (including limit vs. pl), buy in $500, HOWEVER, we don't play table stakes. Stack size is irrelevant. Limit play is usually 25-50-100, or something along those lines. Most time we play Omaha8, or other hilo games. Game is fairly weak, but I'm stuck about $800. Have gotten no cards, and won just a couple of tiny pots.


Last hand of night.


Dealt A-2-10-K, suited ace of hearts, in middle. Button makes it $25 to go, 7 callers (last hand).


Flop comes 4-5-J, two hearts. Nut flush and nut low draw. BB bets out $50. One caller. I decide to just call, mainly because my luck has been so rotten all night. Three callers after me. We see turn 6 handed


Turn is 8. Checked to me. People in this game have realized, finally, that a nut low is often quarters the pot, and are reluctant to bet it. I check mainly because I'm feeling so negative that I feel that someone else has the nut low too, and that I might get counterfieted on the river.


How weak is this check?


Turn gets checked around.


River is a 3, offsuit, giving me a wheel. Its checked to me. I bet pot, around $500, get called by a loosey played who halves with a 2-6, for a higher straight.


How big a mistake is it to


a: not bet the flop with the nut flush/nut low draw.


b: not bet the turn with the nut low made, and the nut flush possible.


Just wondering.


Tim

Your pot equity is huge on the flop, especially for a multi-way pot. You should usually be betting, unless you're expecting someone to bet behind and you want to check-raise.


On the turn, even if you get quartered, that's OK if 4 or more people stay in, so tend towards betting those nut lows, especially when you've got such a good draw for high.


Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

I agree with Greg, but what do you mean when you say you don't play table stakes?

Virtually every limit home game I've played allows the player to "go light", meaning that if you run out of chips during a hand you can either buy more, or usually just take out chips from the pot representing what you owe.


At the conclusion of the hand, you settle up, depending whether you win or lose. Since every one has enough money (we usually settle with personal checks - I've never had one bounce, fyi), not a problem.


This particular game, though, is unusual because we play pot limit with essentially unlimited stacks. However, there are rarely bets over $500-600, mainly because its a friendly game.


This obviously makes a difference, as the large stacks can't muscle the smaller stacks.


Tim

Can somebody choose to be all-in, or must they always play light?


Makes a HUGE difference, and could lead to hard feelings if somebody felt he was being muscled out of the pot by bets that were significantly larger than average for the game.


Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Thanks. I've played limit this way, but never big bet. It would make an interesting game if the short stacks could never take a shot at you and bring along a bunch of hithhikers...

No, like "A big hand for the little lady", we play "western rules" which means that there is no cap on the betting.


However, as I said before, its a friendly game. Most big bets are in the $200-500 range.


Tim

I hope you and your friends continue your lucky streak and the game remains friendly. Your rules are just asking for trouble.


Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Why? We've been playing on a weekly basis for over 2 years and have NEVER had a fight about this, or anything else. It is a very laid back game (ie. if you've accidentaly dealt out, you'll get 4 cards off the top of deck. No misdeal here)


The only contentious pot I can recall is when someone declared the wrong way in hilo (it was obvious which way he was going), and the scooper didn't split the pot. Most people at the table wanted the scooper to split.


Betting limits are irrelevant. Everyone at the table has and makes plenty of money.


BTW, no one has ever won or lost over $2500 despite this structure.