FARGO hand #1

[dhk42]

Later stages of the NLHE tournament. We started with 147, down to 25ish. My stack is a larger stack on this table and a bit larger than average for the tournament.

It was folded to a hyperaggressive player (who had been stealing like crazy) who then raised in either the cut off, or one to the cut off's right. The standard raise had become completion to three times the big blind, but he raised a bit more, actually making the raise for three times the big blind. He had me covered, but not by a huge margin.

I was in the small blind and I looked down to see pocket aces. I went into a deep think to try to figure out how to win the most possible with this hand.

I reasoned that a big re-raise might not work that well. If he is stealing I may win nothing more at all. If he has something like a small to middle pair he might actually be able to get away from it. If he is stealing and I give him the opportunity he might fire again. If he isn't he will be more or less pot committed if he gets something like a pot sized bet out there. But if I don't raise I have the added wrinkle of the big blind still to act.

I decided to call with the intention of check-raising all in (this would be about a pot sized raise to a pot sized bet) if he makes a sizeable bet at the flop, or making a pot size bet on the turn if he checks.

Good idea or bad idea?

David

[woodguy]

Had he laid down to PF re-raises before, or did you just assume he would give up easily?

Nice problem to have, what did you do?

I don't mind your line here, but you can't bitch if he hits 2 pair or a draw on flop and he ends up taking all your chips.

I will also almost always re-raise PF with AA, often the PF raiser will call then fold to a flop bet. I feel better if I get beat and I raised, as opposed to not raising and getting beat. Then I think "what would he have done had I raised" for a day or two.

Regards,
Woodguy

[dhk42]

[ QUOTE ]
Had he laid down to PF re-raises before, or did you just assume he would give up easily?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I assumed. He had been moved to the table a couple of orbits ago and had raised on nearly every deal since he sat. I can't recall that anyone had re-raised him pre-flop yet.

[ QUOTE ]

Nice problem to have, what did you do?


[/ QUOTE ]

I stuck to my plan. I called and the big blind called (uh-oh). The flop came T high. I checked, the BB checked, the raiser bet the pot. I raised all in, the BB mucked. The raiser thought for a minute and called. He showed pocket 9's and got no help on the turn and the river. I doubled up.

[ QUOTE ]

I don't mind your line here, but you can't bitch if he hits 2 pair or a draw on flop and he ends up taking all your chips.


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I know. I was prepared for that, but felt that I had an excellent opportunity to double up. What really worried me though was the BB behind me. He was getting 3:1 on the PF call, so he almost had to play if he had anything. If he flopped a monster I would have felt like an idiot. But he didn't have a huge stack and he had been playing tightly, so I felt there was a good chance he would just muck.

David

[etizzle]

you played it like i would have. Aces are like gold late in a tournament, and you gotta milk them for everything they got.

On side note, he probably would've called all-in preflop.

[Vince Lepore]

It's hard to miss play Aces. Did you miss play them? Not after the flop, in this case, that's for sure. Did you miss play them before the flop? Some may say that unless you think the BB will reraise you shouldn't give him a cheap way to bust you or take a lot of your chips especially given the number of players left. Therefore for that reason you should raise. There are those that think that if you are going to gamble you might as well do it with the best hand. So they might agree with your call preflop. But I'm not sure I like it. One concept, get all the money in preflop with the best hand if possible is a pretty good idea. Most players that limp early with Aces do so in the hope of geting raised amd then rerasing. This strategy has worked pretty well in accumulating chips from my experience.

If you are known as a pretty tight player and would only reraise in the blinds with a big hand then a call migh be right also. But if you have the right image, an image of a player that will raise with a small variety of hands and your raising opponent is smart enough to know this or of he is the type that plays his cards and not yours then a reraise preflop is probably the best way to maximize your expectation in situations like this. If I am right and a reraise is correctt then how much to raise is the next question. The answer is that you raise enough to afford your opponnent(s)the opportunity to make a mistake. I'm tired... Later.

Vince

[dhk42]

Thanks for the comments Vince. You are one of the few names I recognize from back in the olden days. Nice to see you are still posting.

I am still a bit torn about this. I definitely would prefer to get the money in preflop. I definitely would prefer to shut out the big blind. But I definitely don't want to lose my customer if he is stealing with garbage (remember he is hyper-aggressive - almost guaranteed to take a shot at the pot on the flop).

So there are these two concepts battling it out in my head. One - get the money in preflop with the best hand. Two - allow your aggressive opponents the opportunity to bluff at you when you probably have the best hand.

Perhaps if I am fortunate enough to find myself in this spot again, I will try raising the pot and see what happens. In that unlikely event I will RUN to the nearest computer and post the results. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Regards,

David

[dhk42]

[ QUOTE ]
you played it like i would have. Aces are like gold late in a tournament, and you gotta milk them for everything they got.

On side note, he probably would've called all-in preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

He probably would've called all-in preflop because he actually had the nines, right? But I didn't know that at the time.

If you would have played it the same way, can I assume that you buy my argument that if he has a normal stealing hand (I dunno - say A8) calling gets more money (assuming he is aggressive enough to try to re-steal on the flop)?

Thanks,

David

[Vince Lepore]

David,

I wouldn't lose much sleep over my opinion in my first reply if I were you. I like your thought process through the entire situaton. Your read on this guy had to be pretty much right on given his play after the flop. Were I to give you unasked for advice I would recommend that you continue to follow your instincts. Of course I never offer unsolicited advice so I'll just say "well played". Poker, I believe, especially in tournaments, cannot be played by rote!

Vince

[IhadPocketMes]

When this situation occurs to me(in the blinds with a monster and LAG raising preflop) I tend to min reraise, esp since he has been a raising maniac. The worst thing that can happen is he just calls, but 9 out of 10 times for me atleast that person moves in, either with a good hand, or thinks he can outplay you by pushing you off it. Just seems to me the best way to play big hands in the blind.

[Vince Lepore]

[ QUOTE ]
9 out of 10 times for me atleast that person moves in

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Probably a good idea if you continue to play as you do. Why change a winner?

Vince

[durron597]

IMHO, the issue under debate is the risk/reward ratio. If you are willing to risk your whole stack on the chance you might get outflopped when you have AA (relatively unlikely), then this play is fine. If you came to this forum saying "he had TT, I busted out, was this play wrong?" then I would say yes; because had you said that you would have made the play without the risk of busting if you only just call in mind. However, the fact that you doubled up and still wonder if the play was wrong says to me that you were aware of the risk of busting, and still made the play in order to double up since that was worth enough to you to take the increased risk of busting.

Gary Jones (well known European pro) did something along these lines when he busted out of the main event of the WSOP. He let Al Krux see the turn with Al's 99 to make his set, and his AA didn't hit the 2 outer on the river. He took the chance of not betting the flop to double up, with the increased risk of busting (1/22) in mind, to show weakness and let Al think his 99 might be good.

[Vince Lepore]

Bet he wihed he bet now. Seriously, there is almost always a risk when giving a free card with a vulnerable hand. In the case yo mention Krux had but two outs but his opponennt didn't know that. He could have had many more outs. I think he made a mistake by not betting the flop.

vince