make a play to appear bad?

[housenuts]

here's the scenario. the first hand of an SNG. I'm in the SB and dealt 27. usually i would always fold this. there was 2 limpers, and i thought about calling. the only reason i thought about calling is because it was only 10 more, and if i fold other players at the table might realize i'm tight, and perhaps a more sound player.

i know when i notice people folding their SB in the $10 SNG's i think they are more competent players than if not.

[PrayingMantis]

I don't know what buy-in exactly you are talking about (is it $10 as you say in the end?), but generally people pay relatively small attention to your play, and even if they do, it will very seldom (for most of them), change the way they play against you, especially if you're not playing in some very noticeable way (maniac, crazy calling station, etc). It might be different, of course, if you play against stronger opposition, where "mixing it up" becomes more important.

Anyway, as to your image when you fold the SB: generally, in an sng, a tight image is better than loose one, since later on in the game, in the critical stages, stealing succesfully becomes your first concern. And it's (relatively) easier to steal with a tight image than with a loose one. Of course you don't want people to steal from you in these stages (you want them to fold to your BB, of course... ), but that's only a secondary concern, IMO.

Edit: As to people thinking of you as a "bad" player - I don't know exactly how it will help you. Bad can mean many things. If you have specific SNG scenarios where this applies - please elaborate.

[JasonK]

Did you plan on calling all the way to the river so you could show down your 72o?

[Magic Man]

[ QUOTE ]
here's the scenario. the first hand of an SNG. I'm in the SB and dealt 27. usually i would always fold this. there was 2 limpers, and i thought about calling. the only reason i thought about calling is because it was only 10 more, and if i fold other players at the table might realize i'm tight, and perhaps a more sound player.

i know when i notice people folding their SB in the $10 SNG's i think they are more competent players than if not.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all....there is very little chance you're gonna get to the river to show everyone, well unless ya flop the 1 in a bazillion nuts.

Second of all....what good does it do ya to have people think you are a fish or bad player in a SnG? I might be able to grasp it a Ring game with constant blinds if you could get to the river for EXTREMELY cheap....but even then...hoping ya get a monster to sucker in a Good player within a fair amount of hands, before they catch onto that you're at least a decent player by watching ya play other hands....unless ya plan on appearing to play bad on more than 1 out of every 20 hands...well...not a good idea.

Third of All....Appearing a tight Good player....thats the table Image you are gunning for early in a SnG....If you're playing everything under the sun in the first 3 levels of blinds...when it gets to level 4 and above with 4-6 players...Especially as the Blinds get even bigger...you're gonna need to steal a blind or two, well unless you are ALWAYS the Big stack when it gets down to 4 players...Even the Best cant guarentee that ever....Having other players believe you're a Tight player is definately a plus going into the "bubble" stage...Even if you are the short stack (of course not if you're such a small percentage of the average stack)..they see you as tight, you've got fold equity in your favor...they will fear ya have AA KK, when ya are stealing with Ax, or even the 27os...by the time people start realizing that you are stealing with well timed steals....well...now they are the short stack of the table....if your table image can get you multiple BB and SB steals of 100/200 or more without a fight....well...save playing the 72os and play it when you're stack is near critical and the next Blinds will get ya critical....Having the fold to the 72 is a much better option because they fear its a AA, than to intentionally lose extra chips and decrease your ability to steal when it is necessary to do so.

Fourth of all....How many bad table image players have you seen make it into the money? How many Tight Aggessive image players have you seen make it into the money?
Bad image players have zero bluffing power...will they win a big pot here or there? yeah, cause everyone gets good cards sometimes.....If ya look bad...the pots you do win will be bigger...but the times you would prefer to be heads up because of what ya got, well the table is calling ya down the river and hitting their cards killing your stack you built off the one hand.

Fifth of all....If ya look like dead money because of "bad play"....sure ya wont place 8th 9th or 10th, because ya know how to play and won't...but you're gonna get pounded in the middle stages....Look like a dead money player, you are a dead money player for that tourny...the only hope ya have is ya always hit the running flush and if not draw out a full boat every single time...if you can do that...play the 72.

Note: I'm not flamin ya...just want to pound down the point its not a good idea....Reason being....I use to do that...make an example out of 1 hand at level 1 for cheap....what it got me was alot of 5th and 6th places as my stack shrunk when people didnt fold when "they should have"...4 people staying in when i've a "good" and not a "great hand"...well someones is gonna draw out on ya....
I stopped trying to do that...well...my in the money finishes went up 19%....and i'm not sure if it was assosiated the the above change, but I believe it is because folding equity heads up is even more critical when the blinds are huge...but once I'm in the money...was 26% 1st 40% 2nd 34% 3rd....after I stopped trying to "appear bad"..it is 53% 1st 22% 2nd 25% 3rd....and the ironic thing is...90+% of the time in the final 3...I dont start out as the Big stack, because I play to get into the money 1st (even if it means the Big stack is 5+ times my stack)and maintaining a table image as long as possible is a key to getting there....and if ya can get to the money and the other 2 still think you're tight....well...you short stack can grow quick with several blind steals....and when they finally start thinking you arent playing as tight....too late...you're either back in the game...or on Top...and in a position where they can't figure out what you're playing....Now ya tighten back up a bit...play good heads up and crush them...Play for 1st and use their perceptions of you against themselves.

FYI-- I'm at best an average 7-10 player table player
I'm a decent to above average 4-6 player table player
I'm a great 3 or less player table player.
Table image is a big part of getting to the money...add to that being able to read other players well and playing positions correctly....well...anybody can win with good cards if they are dealt to ya....people who can play marginal cards (even rags) in situations that you've read and set up by your play, well they win more money.

[viennagreen]

in the first round of an SNG, i will always complete in the SB if it's unraised with a few limpers.... (i play on Party though, and blinds are 10/15 first round)

i don't think that completing with a 72o is a bad play.

is it?

[lastchance]

Not the worst thing you can do, but your trips and two pair isn't going to be that great, even though it would probably be good, the times you're beat really sting. Plus, you are out of position, which hurts. I don't know. Too lazy to calculate EV right now.