Um, did I got Pzoned or whatever?

[Rubeskies]

BB is a LAG

My question is the flop raise.

And can I fold to any of these check-raises?



Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $3. CO posts a blind of $3.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 (poster) checks, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO (poster) checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(8 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (14 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, CO checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds.

River: (25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 33 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 33 BB, between UTG+1, Hero, SB and BB.</font>

[Danenania]

I would not raise the flop. This would change the hand so much that I can't really give any other advice.

[Jonny Melon]

You said it yourself "BB is a LAG", so, no, don't fold on the river.

The flop raise is very marginal, because only one player is forced to call two bets cold. If the CO was the bettor, then this is an easy raise. You aren't raising for value (it's very likely you're behind and this flop really missed you) on what looks now to be a weak draw. SO -- you really are raising the flop to try and get a free card. Does that seem likely when the flop bettor is a LAG and this many players? It doesn't to me. I'd call and re-evaluate on the turn.

Jon

[SomethingClever]

I'd be shocked if you won, but I think you have to call the turn and river check/raises.

As for the flop raise.... that's to "clean up your outs" or maybe "get a free card," right? Seems a little thin against that big field, and the point was already made that only one person is being forced to call two cold.

Oh, and you got mildly pizowninated.

[MoreWineII]

Bald Bull, lol.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
Bald Bull, lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, your thread gave me the idea for this avatar. Mad props.

[MoreWineII]

They should really update that game for Xbox or something.

[Jonny Melon]

I agree. Animated Bald Bull avatar, no less. Outstanding.

I always considered defeating Bald Bull in the Punch Out arcade version the "turning point" of becoming a solid Punch Out player. Never could beat The Sandman, though.

Jon

[SomethingClever]

Hey Rubeskies, apologies that my avatar has derailed the thread. Hopefully more comments on the hand will be forthcoming.

But yeah, that arcade version was super tough. Also I was like 7 when it came out in 1984 or whatever.

[Rubeskies]

Haha, getting a thread derailed is one of the risks you take when posting on this forum. No need to apologize.

[elindauer]

zoinks. that hurts.

I'm not a fan of the flop raise, too many players, not enough outs or chance of a free card. Just call.

You can't fold to the flop c/r, as the pot is big, you may be ahead, and probably have outs if not.

The river check-raise though, and all that coldcalling, is troublesome. I probably curse and make the crying call, reminding myself that you don't win limit hold 'em folding TPTK closing the action for 1 bet. Still, it looks BAD here.

I hope you pulled off the miracle.

Good luck
Eric

[gamblore99]

the flop raise isnt my preferred line of play, but its not horrible. your definitely behind and as 2 people mentioned only one person is being faced with calling 2 cold no one except maybe on person is folding. Your outs may not be good. The only value of raising this flop is for a freecard really which in this large pot may be quite good. so ya i think its a screw up, but not a big one at all (that is if you are sure your bet will get you a freecard, which it looks like it will)

[Danenania]

I don't think he can expect a free card with much frequency here. You have a LAG who is likely to 3-bet the flop or bet the turn and a whole bunch of other players who may decide to bet out for whatever reason. This wouldn't be a problem if your draw was better or you could protect your hand, but neither applies.

[Danenania]

A flop raise also builds up the pot in such a way that even when he hits an A or K, he will often lose to players that he's given odds to stick around to the river with whatever weak draws they have. Not raising the flop is sort of a pre-emptive way to start protecting his hand should he make it.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

heh.. (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.leonardite.com/wvba/images/bull1.jpg&amp;imgrefurl=http://www.leonardite.com/wvba/11.html&amp;h=181&amp;w=260&amp;sz=38&amp;tbnid=3F8Un6ZXy5QJ:&amp;tbnh =74&amp;tbnw=106&amp;start=5&amp;prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbald%2Bbull%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26c2cof f%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN)

[Rubeskies]

The hilarious results to this hand are:

BB: 95o for one pair of 9s and an impressive checkraise on the river.

UTG+1: Q3o for one pair of 3s

SB: KQo for one pair of Ks queen kicker


And somehow MHIG