Blind battle

[edge]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed)

I have this player marked as vLP-P (very loose passive - passive).

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, Button folds, SB completes, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

River: (5 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

I had him on a club draw, so when the A/images/graemlins/club.gif hit, I wasn't too sure whether to bet the river. Is it a clear fold to the raise?

[naphand]

I think you need more of a handle on him to make big folds. I call this to improve my read, expecting to lose (you only need to be shown Ax 1:8 times to make the call good).

This type of player can be frustrating to play against until you have enough of a read, thereafter you should be able to strip him of his $$, esp. on a very short table. You need to know if he will always call the flop with any single overcard, or any backdoor draw or only with a piece of it, ditto for the Turn. If he will always call the flop but fold the Turn with nowt then a bet is clearly in order, also if he always calls down an A.

Against this type it is your PF raises and value-bets-on-the-end that make the money, but if he is CRing you, you will have to adjust by folding to some raises or checking behind. It's important you don't give him the chance to trap you very often, or your value bets will be effectively countered and it turns into a real grind.

If you had him on a /images/graemlins/club.gif draw that's a clear check behind on the River. If you had not seen him CR before, then bet is OK. Why go against your read on the River?

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
Why go against your read on the River?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because there is no logic behind it. Its more like: "I hope he is on a draw because then I am ahead". Since a passive player will check-call both pairs and draws there is no reason to put him exclusivley on a flush draw and check river.

I would bet river every time and call his raise every time (as long as I hadnt a superread on him). Even passive players gets "tricky" sometimes, specially if he have called you down many times and lost (getting "tricky" is a way of tilting).

If you think he will call with any pair and checkraise with any flush then you are winning +1BB when he got a pair and lose -2BB when flush. If he have a pair more then 2/3 of the times it will be profitable betting river (if he sometimes cr with worse hand then yours, it can maybe be as low as 1/2).

[naphand]

That was not my point. The point was, if you have a read that you are basing your actions on, in this case the flush draw, then he MUST check/call the River. If he is not sure of his read then your line is obviously more correct.

[StellarWind]

Without an exact read, bet-calling seems to be the only sensible play. Two things that didn't happen increase the odds that he doesn't have the flush or straight when he checks to you:

1. He didn't take a shot at the pot with his good draw. I know he's loose-passive, but it happens a fair amount anyway. Unless you know he never does this.

2. More importantly, he didn't bet the river. Passive players bet the river with their flushes a lot more than they checkraise.

[DyessMan89]

You have to call there because of the money already in the pot ... but I have a feeling he either has Big Slick, two clubs, or both.

[samdash]

He had position in the hand so he couldn't check/call.