The 'Stop N Go'...

[DonkeyKong]

I am trying to incorporate this more into my NL tourney game and wanted to learn the basic plain-vanilla 'Stop N Go' moves. (although non vanilla move comments welcome as well)

here are a few I use but not sure if these are standard and how I can add more... or if my logic is flawed in these(please refer me to a good book on this subject if such exists)...

ie, stack has dropped materially below average, blinds are about to rise and you get a small pair in the BB vs a CO seat 3x BB raise:

Just Call and move-in if flop comes no paint... Logic being that if opponent didn't pair, you are now 3-1 favorite vs a coin-flip before the flop... therefore, opponent might fold and doesn't get to see 5 cards to pair his card like he would if you moved in pre-flop... you pick up the bet and have forced him to pair on the flop. If he hit the flop with say AJ.... but its second pair to a K J x flop, he may fold figuring you made top pair. if he doesn't hit flop and calls, you don't mind as a 3/1 favorite and if he catches, you are no worse off than if went all-in pre-flop and got called (likely since your stack isn't all that large).
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or, use stop n go as short-stack with any 2 cards... call & see flop then move in no matter what comes... hoping opponent didn't hit the flop and doesn't have an overpair...

can someone describe what they are looking for to execute the classic tournament stop n go and what to watch out for from others? thx...

[rachelwxm]

Interesting post, first time I learn the word 'Stop and Go" even it appeared a few times before. I don't know the answer myself, but I would like to post two hands that I encountered:

Let's say you have AQs in late position w 9bb and someone has you covered open raise 3bb and you put him on a pair 6-T. Should you call and moving in on flop if you flop a pair or you reraise all in BF?

You have 9bb and w Js one big stack open UGT 3bb and you put him on two over like AQ, should you push back or flat call and push if flop are all rags?

These hands create lot of randomness to my games. My standard play is to push but I see other choices as well.

[Sam T.]

As I understand it a stop & go is used under these circumstances:

-You are in the blinds, and have what is (probably) the best starting hand.
-A player in front of you has raised.
-You are short-stacked enough that if you re-raise all-in you will almost certainly be called, which you do not want. (i.e. you've got a small to medium pair, which does not want to give overcards a full board with which to work.)

So the way out of this is to call the raise, and then push no matter what cards come. Remember that a scary board for you is a scary board for your opponent.

Variations include:
-Trying this with a big (or even average) stack. Some mother-scratcher pulled this on me last night in a MTT. I raise in MP with AQs, and get two callers including the tall-stack in the BB. Flop comes Kxx, and the tall-stack bets out. He probably had a K, but I couldn't call to find out. It's good to be the chip bully.

-Stop & stop. If there are a lot of others in the pot, and the flop is extremely unfriendly, you can put the brakes on your plan. (Purists would argue that this is not a true stop and go.)

I'm not sure if trying this with "any two cards" would qualify. That's closer to a pure bluff, I think.

[thomastem]

There is a lot that goes into this like your image and read on opponent. I am going to give a piece of info left out and let others give more.

You need to have enough chips left after the call preflop to buy the pot on the flop. A pot sized bet or slightly bigger on the flop is ideal imo.

Also if this play is profitable against certain opponents why wait till you are short-stacked? If there is nothing wrong with stealing the blinds what could possibly be wrong with stealing flops when you are large stacked?

Ooops that is 2 pieces sorry.

[Cleveland Guy]

The problem with a SnG in late position is it might not happen.

If you are in the CO with AQs and a short stack, and an MP raises to 3xBB. You call in the CO. Now what happens if he acts first and bets enough yuo are all in. This is the problem with using the Stop and Go in a late position. If you don't know it will be checked to you, you can't rely on it. If you want to get to see all 5 cards here you are better off pushing all in. IMO

Now if you are in MP and open limped, or raised for 2xBB. You get raised to 5XBB by the cutoff - this is a good place for a stop and Go. You will be first to act after the flop, so you can just call his bet, and then push your lest 10 or 12BB into the pot after the flop.

[CrisBrown]

Hi D.K.,

I generally prefer to stop-and-go with a made hand like a small pair. What I'm trying to do is: (a) conceal my hand; and, (b) defer the other player's all-in decision until he has fewer effective outs (outs x cards to come).

This can also happen when, for example, you flop two pair on a draw-rich board. Rather than push here -- where your opponents have two cards to come -- I will often wait and push if the turn blanks. Now they have only one card to come, and they're more likely to release their draws.

The underlying theory is that, when you have a made hand that is not likely to improve, against an unknown hand or a draw, you want to pressure your opponents at the time they are most vulnerable. A lot of hands look good pre-flop. Fewer look good on the flop, and fewer still at the turn.

Cris

[binions]

Raymer describes it well over on the MTT forum. Do a search on that forum for the terms "stop" and "go" with the poster as "Greg (Fossilman)

[ilya]

A variation would be when you're heads-up and your opponent limps in the SB. You have complete trash, and you don't think you can make your opponent fold preflop because your stack is too small/he really likes to see flops. In this situation, I will just check and move all-in no matter what comes on the flop.
Not sure if this meets the purist's definition of a Stop And Go but who really cares.

[rachelwxm]

Thanks. Could you give a link?

[Cleveland Guy]

This happened against me in a tournament yesterday. The villian didn't take any pot odds into the equation with his stop and go. I think this is a good example of how NOT to use a stop and go.


Pokeroom 10+1 - 6 handed. Blinds are 100/200.

Hero opens from MP for 500 with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Folded to the SB who calls - leaving him with 300.

Flop: Pot = 1200
SB Pushes in his remaing 300. So for me it's 300 to call a pot of 1500.

Regardless of cards, I don't think I'm ever gonna lay this down.

Are results important here?