Compounding Errors - A quiz?poll?

[Sarge85]

I emailed this hand to my other online poker friends to see if would start any discussion. Maybe some will get value out of it here, maybe I'll just look like a fish. I can handle it either way.

$1/$2 table – very loose passive, not a lot of PF raises. Only my 10th hand or so, so no solid reads other than no one gets out of hand PF.

DON’T LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU

I’m dealt 3/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif UTG and limp in.

About 3 other people limp in, the SB completes, and the BB Checks.

Flop comes T/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif

Checked to the last person who bets, SB and BB fold.

I should have folded – I should of – I should of. – I didn’t. Part of the reason I didn’t was because being the last person to act – he could be on any sort of hand here, all the way down to Axo and basically have no part of the board and making a play at a threatening board, or he could have as much as Qx, Tx or a pocket pair better than mine. I suppose he could have any number of draws as well such as AJ, K9, KJ, or some other straight draw. A lot of times with board like this – you could be way ahead (i.e. hold a T or a Q, or you can be way behind – not holding the Q or T, and being susceptible to multiple draws – such holding pocket 3's)

Anyway I called – which was probably mistake number #2. Folding Best, Raising Better, Calling worst. If I raise, I can see what types of cards the players between us have – but no, I commit error #2 and just call. One player between us calls – 3 to the turn.

Turn [T/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif] [9/images/graemlins/spade.gif]

Well pooh, funky draws could have got there, my hand certainly didn’t improve, and I still have no idea where I’m really at in this hand. – I check with the intent to check fold if it's bet at again – and it gets checked around. WTF? Ok- so maybe the last person to act was afraid of straight draws and is fearful of the CR. Maybe he only has a Queen? Maybe he only has Ax? What does the person inbetween us have though? 3 to the river.

River [T/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif][3/images/graemlins/heart.gif] – woo hoo…salvation – my bad play paid off.

Mistake #3 – I decide to check. If a person has a straight they’ll bet out with a harmless three and not want to see it get checked around again, if a person has a Q, they’ll probably bet after it checked through on the turn, and certainly any Tens will bet as well. Obviously my goal here is to check raise. However I risk not picking up bets if a person just had a smaller pocket pair, maybe a 9, or maybe a scared Queen. Betting out would have been better and re-raising if i have the opportunity.

Anyway – back to the action. – I check, the person in between us checks, our villain on the end bets, and I check raise. He re-raises me (ok must have that T and was hoping to induce a bluff on the river by checking the turn), we end up capping the action on the end – (By the way the person in between us dropped out when I CR’ed)


SO – we cap, show our cards….he shows – any guesses?????? T/images/graemlins/heart.gif9/images/graemlins/club.gif for the turned bigger full house and gets the pot shoved his direction.

Rank my errors from least to worst

In no particular order…..

Capping the river action
Calling the Flop
Limping in with 33
Going for a check raise on the river
Not folding the Flop
Not check raising the flop
Not Betting the Turn

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[Bez]

At least you know you made mistakes. A fish wouldn't.

[Piiop]

Least -

Limping in with 33
Capping the river action
Going for a check raise on the river
Not Betting the Turn
Not folding the Flop - Not check raising the flop (Equal)
Calling the Flop

- Worst

[Nottom]

I think my list would be something like this (from worst to least bad); I think only the top 2 are clear mistakes.

Calling the Flop
Capping the river action
Not folding the Flop
Going for a check raise on the river
Not check raising the flop
Not Betting the Turn
Limping in with 33

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]
I think my list would be something like this (from worst to least bad); I think only the top 2 are clear mistakes.

Calling the Flop
Capping the river action
Not folding the Flop


[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif Capping the River was worse than not folding the flop?

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[LowDown22]

Least
Capping the river action
Not Betting the Turn
Not check raising the flop
Limping in with 33
Going for a check raise on the river
Calling the Flop - Not folding the Flop
Worst

Must fold this flop. Just about every card in the deck is scary for you on the turn or river. The preflop limp is perfectly fine in a loose passive game.

[Piiop]

On the river, I think betting out is the best play. Hopefully, you can trap the guy inbetween for more bets.

[Sarge85]

written back to a friend, so if the dialouge seems odd, its' because it's in the context of a conversation

Least to Worst

LEAST
1) Not betting the Turn
2) Limping w/33
3) Capping the River Action
4) Going for a CR on the River
5) Not CR’ing the Flop
6) Not Folding the Flop
7) Calling the Flop
WORST

1) Probably the easiest decision of the hand. – Betting out here is only building a pot for someone else, and more than anything I probably stand to get raised rather than take it down. Any Q and T are going to call me. There is a reasonable chance that somebody just drew to a straight. My actual thought when playing the hand was to check-fold the flop if it came to that. – Having it checked through was a surprise.

2) Limping w/33 – I think you may still playing with a NL mindset if your not limping in with any pocket pair on loose-passive tables. I can’t be raised All IN, and would only have to put in a maximum of one more bet if I chose. I’d fold if it came two bets back to me, but would have proper pot odds to call for one bet. If the table had exhibited pots being raised every time PF, then an argument can be made for folding PF. The particular site I was playing at is known for being loose passive. Generally I limp with all pocket pairs.

3) Capping the River action – This seemed like a no brainer to cap here. Especially based on the Turn action. Someone else indicated on 2+2 that this was my second mistake – ahead of what I see much larger mistakes, but I can’t really see how. It is much more likely than I’m up against a random T or a straight than a larger Full House. However, I should also realize that 9T is frequently a limping hand.

4) I think just betting the river is a better play. I’d venture based on the action up to that point, any straight will probably raise me, giving me the chance to re-raise, and I would also venture that I bet a random T would come to life as well. Attempting a CR, I could have lost potential bets while holding a strong hand.

5) The last three errors could probably be lumped into one – called Flop action. It’s probably a tie between folding and CR’ing here, but I think folding would have been the best choice – so I guess it’s more of an error not to fold, than to try and check raise.

6) Calling here is just plain awful – I can’t define my hand, or define the hands of my opponents. If I see them calling two, or re-raising me – It’s much easier to put them on a range of hands. There probably is a small chance that I could pick up pot with a CR –where as Calling does absolutely nothing.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif