Starting standards, two LAGS on my right.

[sethypooh21]

Recently had a very frustrating session where two UBER-lags were sitting to my immediate right. Virtually every blind of mine was 3 bets to me, and the hands were routinely on the order of Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and j /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. What hands are playable here? (assume other 3 are standard loose reasonably passive LL players)

[naphand]

Good question. I found myself in a similar spot today with a super-aggro raisor to my immediate right.

After folding a LOT of hands, once I had a handle on the guy and saw raises with QTo, JTo and lower suiteds, I started to 3-bet back more often, and cold call with a few hands. I am not sure of the correctness of this but I had waited over an hour for some decent playable hands to 3-bet and they weren't coming. It's crap when you are just not getting cards and constantly having to fold even reasonable hands in the face of this kind of barrage. It worked this time, I missed a few hands and won a few, and super-aggro decided they did not like the pain of getting 3-bet PF or and raised on the flop, and left the table.

I think you do need to drop your standards slightly when you have a handle on their play, all the while being aware of any other players who may come in. It is really a question of having a reasonable +EV gap between your standards and theirs. Alternatively, just leave the table and look elsewhere, it's pointless bashing your head against a wall when conditions are just not right esp. if you are starting to get riled. I am "working" more on my ability to just leave a table when I don't like it, or cannot get a handle on a player who is making the game difficult. It's not often, and there are always other tables.

If the LAGs are running over the table, they will keep it up until you put a sustained challenge against them. If that fails then re-assess your choice of table.

Any comments from others? It cannot just be a question of waiting for big cards, or is it? We need to be careful of getting drawn into their LAG-world.

[Benjamin]

[ QUOTE ]
Any comments from others? It cannot just be a question of waiting for big cards, or is it? We need to be careful of getting drawn into their LAG-world.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think patience and waiting for cards is of utmost importance in this situation. If it's 2 LAGs betting it up to your right, then patience is even more important, because while both may be raising with marginal hands, chances are on any given hand one of them will have decent starters and/or hit the flop.

I'd wait for big cards and medium-to big pairs and then pop em back. It only takes a hand or two with a lot of bets going in to make up for folding blinds for quite a few rounds.

Leaving is always a good option if you don't like the situation. Personally I don't mind being in the given situation on one of my tables, but if I were playing only one table, I'd probably go elsewhere where I could play more hands.

B.

[Grisgra]

Very frustrating situation -- I'm sure you guys are like I am, thinking

"I am clearly a superior player to Mr. Dumbass-LAG, I even have him completely figured out . . . now I just need to PROVE it to him that he's a moron for raising after one caller with Q8s or open-raising with J9o!"

And then you get no good cards, or get good cards but fail to ever hit the flop. And end up in call-him-down-with-king-high land. Or whatever.

Argh.

I'm learning to be patient in that situation -- it really is key. Get ready for the swings, though -- both ways /images/graemlins/smile.gif.