mtt on pokerroom and cowboys...

[cocarondelle]

blinds 1000-2000.

Hero - has 25,000 chips.
Enemy - has 40,000 chips.

im utg+1 and get dealt KK (note: i have trouble getting off of KK , especially preflop)

utg folds i limp in as everyone does to the bb who raises to 6000. I move all in with my cowboys and he takes a long time before he calls. He shows AK. the flop comes rags and he catches an Ace on the turn knocking me out. I still placed in the money, but i was thinking that i made a mistake preflop. WOuld u guys have raised it utg+1, or limp+raise, or flat call and move all in if the flop came no aces? I now think i should have done the stop+go move. What do you guys/gals think?

[SossMan]

you got your chips in as a 70:30 favorite to double up.....cards happen. you played it fine.

[Bigdaddydvo]

you were a monster favorite preflop. i've lost w/KK all in preflop to AK to that damn ace, yet I was happy to get all my chips in as such a big favorite.

[cocarondelle]

yup. the ace never seems to fail to come up against me lol. yeah, but thinking i could have pushed him out of the pot if i moved in after the flop was a possibility. Becuase my thinking is that calling a raise and then moving all in is pretty strong move, and he would not have called me on a draw. only with pocket pairs, which i could beat(except for aces of course) or if he had spike a set. (which doubt he would have in the bb). i certainly would lay down ace king if s1 moved all in on a board of rags /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
(note: i have trouble getting off of KK , especially preflop)


[/ QUOTE ]

what a silly thing to say....my guess is that you have many, many more leaks than this

[cocarondelle]

hehe yeah still continuing to try to patch up those leaks /images/graemlins/smile.gif i was exaggerating about folding kk preflop.

[fnurt]

Think of it this way. Say you call preflop, the flop is rags, and you bet all-in. At this moment you are a 6:1 favorite, betting 19000 into a pot of 12000. Do you want your opponent to call this bet? My god, of course you do!!! No way do you want to give up this good an opportunity just to avoid the scenario where an ace comes on the turn or river.

Playing it the safe way (i.e. you win 6000 when no ace flops, and lose 6000 when an ace flops) gives you an expected stack of about T29200 after the hand.

Getting all the money in preflop as a 70:30 favorite results in an expected stack of T35000. So playing this the "safe" way is equivalent to giving away a quarter of your stack, just because you're afraid of a bad beat. That would not be good poker.

The OTHER problem with the "safe" play is that you are effectively giving away the pot every time an ace flops, even when your opponent doesn't have an ace! Imagine if he has QQ instead. He beats you legitimately 18% of the time, but on top of that you're giving him permission to bet you off the hand every time an ace flops. That's a ton of extra EV you're giving your opponent that he does not deserve.

[Kaz The Original]

GREAT post.

[Steve Chase]

There is nothing wrong in your All In bet.
You are a big favorite to win a lot of chips.
I would do it every time with my KK even I get bat beats from time to time.

What you did wrong is that you should raise with KK instead of limping.

One time someone with AA limped in, I limped with 89o.
Flop was T76 rainbow. AA bet all in. I called.
I would fold my 89 is there is a raise.

[patrick dicaprio]

you have trouble getting off KK preflop! you and 99% of the other players /images/graemlins/blush.gif

i dont see how you can overthink this one. you have one goal with KK and that is to get all your chips in preflop, doesnt matter how you do it. you did it. well played. the loss is just cards.

Pat

[iRoD]

Obviously you want to get all your money as the favourite, especially considering the payout structures of these MTTs, this is the PERFECT situation to double. The limp reraise all-in was used to perfection here. Remember there is a possibility that had you raised from your position, the BB might have moved you all in anyways, making the result the same. Unlucky about the turn, but keep it going and good things will happen.

Pat

[cocarondelle]

thanks to everyone for their response. yeah the first mistake was just limping in with kk. but either way i'm gonna push, push away whenever i get pocket kings /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Cleveland Guy]

Don't Limp from UTG +1 once UTG has already limped. You are now giving odds for later players to limp with marginal hands because of pot odds. This screams of a multi-way pot building, which with KK you do not want.

[Dan Rutter]

Don't second guess yourself, you limped with the intention of pushing if someone raised I assume. You played it fine. If the BB was aggressive he may have lead out on the flop enough to commit himself to calling your all-in either way( if you limped-called pre-flop). In that situation the same results occur. Me raising right away would have depended a lot on how many pots were being raised pre-flop. If I felt there was a high possiblity it would be raised, then it is more like I would limp with the attention of re-raising. If everyone was playing loose and passive, I thinking opening for a raise would be the best option. In this situation though, against most oponents, all the chips will be going in the pot pre-flop, if you raise, or limp-raise.

[JARID]

nm

[erfinator]

seems to me that you played it correctly... i'm generally a fan of the limp-reraise preflop since most players don't recognize that you hold a monster. in that situation, you want him to call. you're a 3:1 favorite. just a bad beat.