Three questions

[Bigwig]

1. What hands do you open raise with from early position at a typical relatively full table (8-10) players?

I think this has been a hole in my game. I'm convinced that it's foolish to raise with AQ or AQs now, especially the former. Thanks for finally beating it into my head. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif I've also crossed off 99 for an opening raise, but still think it is worth opening with TT to thin the field and perhaps isolate a small stack.

2. What hands do you limp with from early position at a typical relatively full table (8-10 players)?

I'm tightening up here, as well. You finally beat this into my head, too. The danger isn't that I don't think I can get away from a hand like QTs, but that the danger of a raise from mid/late position is too high. But, what hands do you call with?

3. At what point do you consider early position to no longer exist in the sense that we're talking about? When the table is down to six players? Five? Combination of that and blind increases?

Thanks for your feedback.

[lucas9000]

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1. What hands do you open raise with from early position at a typical relatively full table (8-10) players?

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ak, aa-tt, and that's about it. when the table is full, i play tight in early position in a tournament. cash game would be a different story. you're correct to ditch aq, suited or not, imo.

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2. What hands do you limp with from early position at a typical relatively full table (8-10 players)?

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basically none. at a full table (or close to it) in a tournament, i'm only looking to be playing monster hands from early position that i won't mind a raise or reraise from behind me. i think limping in early position early in a tournament is a leak.

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3. At what point do you consider early position to no longer exist in the sense that we're talking about? When the table is down to six players? Five? Combination of that and blind increases?

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if you're talking about standards for limping/raising hands in "early position," my standards practically do a 180 when it gets down to 5. 6 i still play my tight game, unless i'm on a short stack and need to make some moves. once it's down to 5 though, i tend to still play tight but look for steal opportunities on the button and the cutoff, but utg can be a good place to steal too if you think people will respect your out-of-position raise.

[rachelwxm]

I am throwing away AQ like trash from early position for a full game even though it becomes a raisable hand late position first in.
If it's down to 6 handed and I have less than 10bb, I would probably push with it.

[Bigwig]

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basically none. at a full table (or close to it) in a tournament, i'm only looking to be playing monster hands from early position that i won't mind a raise or reraise from behind me. i think limping in early position early in a tournament is a leak.

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Not even with mid/decent pairs, hoping for a set when the blinds are too small? Also, big suited A's, just to see the flop? Usually, I think if you get in the pot with AJs, in an unraised pot, you've got a really good chance of having the top A, or top pair with a J, and the possibility of a nut flush draw. What do you think?

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if you're talking about standards for limping/raising hands in "early position," my standards practically do a 180 when it gets down to 5. 6 i still play my tight game, unless i'm on a short stack and need to make some moves. once it's down to 5 though, i tend to still play tight but look for steal opportunities on the button and the cutoff, but utg can be a good place to steal too if you think people will respect your out-of-position raise.

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At a table of six, what do you consider 'early position?' UTG? UTG+1?

[dethgrind]

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Quote:

1. What hands do you open raise with from early position at a typical relatively full table (8-10) players?



ak, aa-tt, and that's about it. when the table is full, i play tight in early position in a tournament. cash game would be a different story. you're correct to ditch aq, suited or not, imo.

Quote:

2. What hands do you limp with from early position at a typical relatively full table (8-10 players)?



basically none. at a full table (or close to it) in a tournament, i'm only looking to be playing monster hands from early position that i won't mind a raise or reraise from behind me. i think limping in early position early in a tournament is a leak.


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Early in a tournament, if you have a small or medium stack, your strategy should not be much (if at all) different from your cash game strategy. Your tournament equity is pretty much linearly related to your number of chips; this means you should be focusing on accumulating chips, just as if they were money.

So I'd bet that not folding medium (and probably even small) pocket pairs and big suited aces is a better way to go. Theses hands almost certainly have a positive chip expectation, and therefore will make you money at the beginning of the tournament.

[Bigwig]

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[ QUOTE ]
Quote:

1. What hands do you open raise with from early position at a typical relatively full table (8-10) players?



ak, aa-tt, and that's about it. when the table is full, i play tight in early position in a tournament. cash game would be a different story. you're correct to ditch aq, suited or not, imo.

Quote:

2. What hands do you limp with from early position at a typical relatively full table (8-10 players)?



basically none. at a full table (or close to it) in a tournament, i'm only looking to be playing monster hands from early position that i won't mind a raise or reraise from behind me. i think limping in early position early in a tournament is a leak.


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Early in a tournament, if you have a small or medium stack, your strategy should not be much (if at all) different from your cash game strategy. Your tournament equity is pretty much linearly related to your number of chips; this means you should be focusing on accumulating chips, just as if they were money.

So I'd bet that not folding medium (and probably even small) pocket pairs and big suited aces is a better way to go. Theses hands almost certainly have a positive chip expectation, and therefore will make you money at the beginning of the tournament.

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But certainly fold against a sign of strength preflop from another player, correct?

[dethgrind]

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But certainly fold against a sign of strength preflop from another player, correct?


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I don't know about "certainly".

I doubt calling huge raises with these hands early on is profitable. But if a "sign of strength" from a particular player is a minraise, I think your pocket pairs are still profitable in a game where you'll typically get a couple more callers behind you. You'll still get paid plenty on your sets, without having to invest a lot preflop. The same is probably true for your big suited aces.

I can't see myself folding AKs even in early position to most raises from anyone other than an extremely tight raiser. This might be a leak in my game. I'm in good shape against the raiser, but who knows what might happen behind me.

[Bigwig]

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But certainly fold against a sign of strength preflop from another player, correct?


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I don't know about "certainly".

I doubt calling huge raises with these hands early on is profitable. But if a "sign of strength" from a particular player is a minraise, I think your pocket pairs are still profitable in a game where you'll typically get a couple more callers behind you. You'll still get paid plenty on your sets, without having to invest a lot preflop. The same is probably true for your big suited aces.

I can't see myself folding AKs even in early position to most raises from anyone other than an extremely tight raiser. This might be a leak in my game. I'm in good shape against the raiser, but who knows what might happen behind me.

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Well, a mini-raise isn't a sign of strength. I meant an appropriate 3XBB + limper considerations type raise.

On your AKs comment. Aren't you raising with AKs to begin with? So you're talking about calling a reraise?

[binions]

Position always matters.

[Bigwig]

binions -- Of course position always matters. But there are points in SNG's and final tables of MTT's where things change because of the number of players left to act. We've all generally agreed that opening with AQ UTG is a bad move at a full table, but certainly it isn't four handed UTG. I'm trying to find a general consensus for when it is okay to start opening up your starting hands from early position.

[binions]

When it's worth it - blinds are worth stealing.

[dethgrind]

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Well, a mini-raise isn't a sign of strength. I meant an appropriate 3XBB + limper considerations type raise.

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Don't cold-call real raises from early position with these hands. If you already limped, and it got raised behind you, you've got a situation-dependent... situation on your hands. If there are plenty of other callers after the raise, and the raise is only a small portion of your stack, a call is probably in order with a pocket pair.

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On your AKs comment. Aren't you raising with AKs to begin with? So you're talking about calling a reraise?


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I was talking about a raise coming before my first action, ie I'm UTG+1 with AKs and UTG just raised 3XBB. I'm not sure if I raise and it gets reraised behind me.

[Bigwig]

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When it's worth it - blinds are worth stealing.

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I was hoping for something a little more specific. Not exact, mind you, but good general guidlines.

[Bigwig]

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I was talking about a raise coming before my first action, ie I'm UTG+1 with AKs and UTG just raised 3XBB. I'm not sure if I raise and it gets reraised behind me.

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If UTG raises, and you have AKs UTG+1, you'd typically raise?

[dethgrind]

I'd call or reraise, but almost never fold.

[Marcotte]

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I was talking about a raise coming before my first action, ie I'm UTG+1 with AKs and UTG just raised 3XBB. I'm not sure if I raise and it gets reraised behind me.

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If UTG raises, and you have AKs UTG+1, you'd typically raise?

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I would a lot of the time at $10+1, though I suppose I'd be more inclined to call. (I'd might also reraise with QQ.) With AK, the chances of being against AA or KK is diminished, and I don't mind playing against anything else.

[RobGW]

1. What hands do you open raise with from early position at a typical relatively full table (8-10) players?

I would open raise with AA,KK,QQ,AK, and AQ in EP.

2. What hands do you limp with from early position at a typical relatively full table (8-10 players)?

I ususally limp with Group 1-4 hands. Just like the good book says.

3. At what point do you consider early position to no longer exist in the sense that we're talking about? When the table is down to six players? Five? Combination of that and blind increases?

I would say at 5 players but blind size will definately impact the type of hands that I play.

I would also say that early during a tournament the only way to accumulate chips is by playing. Throwing away AQ, QJs is like throwing away money. What is the difference between AK and AQ? How often does it happen that you open with AQ and get dominated by AK? Not often. How often do you have someone with AJ, AT, or Ax dominated? If you want to take the bad players money you have to get in there. I think playing too tight will let you last longer but if you want to win you have to get in there with +EV hands.

[poboy]

Question #1: AA-QQ and AK. Raising w/ TT or JJ from ep is not a good play IMO. An overcard will fall 70% of the time and then you have no idea where you're at. Limp and hope to hit a set.

Question #2: Limping from ep is usually a bad idea, unless your table is passive. If I were going to limp anything from ep it would have to be a small-medium pair or a big suited Ace like AQ or AJ and maybe KQs. Eliminating crap hands like JK,JQ,JT suited or not ,has really improved my game.

Queston #3: Position always matters. Though when it gets short handed sometimes being in ep has some advantages. Alot of times the first person to bet takes down the pot and being in ep guarantees you can be first to bet.