Do you bet this river?

[TripleH68]

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

BB has bet out with middle pair and draws in a relatively tight game. SB is passive.

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, MP3 calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero ???

<font color="brown"> Comments on the river and the path to this river appreciated. </font>

[jrobb83]

Raise this before the flop.

I would bet the river. You can very safely fold to a raise, and will get called be middle pairs enough to make this a profitable value bet.

[Alobar]

raise this preflop

fold to the flop bet. Youve got nothing but overcards on a draw laden board. BBs bet means more than likely he has something or a draw, so hes there till the river, so you arnt buying the pot. You are trying to make a fancy play in a small pot. Let this one go.

bet the river, fold to a raise

[InchoateHand]

If you are good, will they both call? Will you be good 33% of the time if the former is true? What sort of reads do you have on them.


I'm interested by your flop raise on a reasonably coordinated board with just the Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Did table conditions grant this? Do you usually raise your overcards here?

When SB calls two cold on the flop, but doesn't bet out, its pretty obvious he has a draw. BB could be anything. If these are thinking opponents, they may well put you on a flush draw--I would have, and thus call with weak holdings like a pair of sixes, etc. on the river.

I think I would check behind here, or bet if you can confidently fold to a raise from these opponents.


I think play here is almost entirely read dependent, but I am unpersuaded by your flop move.

[pokerkai]

Bet the river, fold to the checkraise

[garyc8]

Raise this pre-flop w/ only 1 in ahead of you.

Raise on the flop hoping to see river free if you miss the turn is fine.

Bet on the turn in necessary. No free cards on a draw scary board.

If BB would never check-raise bluff the scary river card, then go ahead and value bet since you can safely fold to a raise. If you cannot fold to a raise, I would take the free showdown.

[bisonbison]

You know what's wierd? Sometimes I check and sometimes I bet and call, but I never bet and fold here. God I hate folding.

[secada]

I raise PF. This changes the whole dynamic of the hand. With KQ I fold or raise the flop, depending on my mood.

I like betting the river. If I get check-raised I call in approximately one second.

Yesterday I was 3 to 4 tabling for several hours to clear Party's last bonus and I must have been check-raised 5 or 6 times by someone with a worse hand on the river in situations similar to this. Sure, sometimes he'll have a straight or even a trashy 2-pair but they will call with worse hands enough to make up for it IMHO.
-secada

[dejableu]

When they call they will have worse hands fairly often. However, when they check-raise you, they will almost always have two pair or better (generally the straight). You should not be calling that raise in one second...

[dejableu]

I check behind. True, the spade draw missed, but a 7 would definitely be looking to pop you with a check-raise after your raise on the flop and bet on the turn. Since I agree with Bison in that it sucks to lay down top pair here, I'm happy to lose a bet (or possibly two) rather than get socked with a check-raise and a very uncomfortable decision.

[secada]

If you are not going to call a raise here then don't bet. My point was that I think my hand is going to be good enough of the time with this board against 2 players that I am not going to bet. If I am check-raised I am not going to sit there and think about folding.

Sorry if I am a little cranky, the Red Sox game ended after 2:00 a.m. last night.

[TripleH68]

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

BB has bet out with middle pair and draws in a relatively tight game. SB is passive.

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, MP3 calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero ???

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the comments. Hero bets out on the river, SB called, BB check-raised, Hero folds, SB folds.

Do you think the call by SB makes BB more or less likely to bluff at this pot? I normally do not take the bet-fold line, but it felt okay here...
As for the flop raise(free card play), if I had the straight he must have figured I would have waited 'til the turn to raise?

P.S. I appreciate the "posting suggestions/guidelines" as I know I was guilty of giving away my attitude about hands in previous posts.

[Fnord]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise on the flop hoping to see river free if you miss the turn is fine.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not in an unraised pot! You're spending too much for too little value. Yet another reason I like to raise pre-flop.