Internet Poker is a Stupid Boring Grind

But it sure beats the hell out of a (shudder) JOB, which is also a stupid boring grind only less convenient, more stressful, and less profitable! Three cheers for Internet Poker--long may it live!!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[FlFishOn]

Don't forget to mention the ethically questionable nature of making a living off of human weakness and addiction.

To the day he died, my father wouldn't tell people I played poker for a living. I'm OK with that.

[thomastem]

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Don't forget to mention the ethically questionable nature of making a living off of human weakness and addiction.

To the day he died, my father wouldn't tell people I played poker for a living. I'm OK with that.

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I always thought poker pros were entertainers getting paid? Granted a small percentage develop a problem like with Alcohol but for the typical casual player they budget money just like when they go to a movie and plan on losing it for a good time.

IMO if we call poker pros low lifes that prey on human weakness then I guess we would have to call all actors and every worker that is employed by an establishment that serves Alcohol the same.

Since Doctors prescribe drugs that people sometimes get addicted to I guess we need to add them too.

[EjnarPik]

Well, at least you weren't a lawyer or insurance agent.

Ejnar Pik, Southern-Docks.

[The once and future king]

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Don't forget to mention the ethically questionable nature of making a living off of human weakness and addiction.

To the day he died, my father wouldn't tell people I played poker for a living. I'm OK with that.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I have said else where it isnt an ethical question its a moral one.

The definition of a compltetly ethical pro poker player is that of aplayer who would never cheat to gain an edge or make $$$$. He confroms to the ethics of his chosen profession.

Wether you should be that player in the first place is the moral question.

[MicroBob]

I dealt BJ at a casino for 8 months. It was really the big, evil corporation that was praying on the weakness of others....but I was certainly an active participant in it....in that I got a pay-check every 2 weeks because of all of the people in the world who have that weakness/addiction and my employers' ability to take advantage of them.


Bartenders would certainly fall into this category as well.

I have bigger problems with some morally questionable folks in many other professions.
There are plenty of amublance-chasing lawyers out there who are certainly not that concerned about the clients they are able to con.
Boiler-room brokers, rip-off car mechanics, doctors who charge insanely high fees to rip off the insurance companies, the insurance companies who refuse to be there for their clients who need them.
Corrupt (or semi-corrupt) politicians...etc etc.
Cut-throat corporate sleeze-bags, virtually anyone in sales.


There are a lot of professions out there that are considered 'proper' by our society but involve just as much (if not more) ripping-off of the weak as poker.

If your Dad had issues with it then that's his right.
But I refuse to feel guilty over the supposed ethical issues involved in poker-playing.
I'm not trying to con them INTO playing with me. They KNOW ahead of time that I will be trying to win their money (such is the object of the game) just as I know that they will be trying to take my money.
It's not my fault if they suck and don't bother to study the game. I could TELL them to read Sklansky or SSHE if they want to get better and they still wouldn't listen to me. Their arrogance and ignorance is not my fault or problem.

Additionally, the bad players are going to lose their money anyway. If there were ZERO good players to take it away from them then it would primarily get passed back and forth across the table and the house would take in more of it.


If there's someone sitting next to you that you're worried about because you think they are about to spend their very last dollar you are free to try to do something about it if you think you can without getting punched in the mouth.

But in the general nature of poker where I assume most of the players are adults and treat their money with some degree of responsibility I can't consider myself to blame for their terrible play.

[Sponger15SB]

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But it sure beats the hell out of a (shudder) JOB, which is also a stupid boring grind only less convenient, more stressful, and less profitable! Three cheers for Internet Poker--long may it live!!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

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here here!

[benfranklin]

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Don't forget to mention the ethically questionable nature of making a living off of human weakness and addiction.


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Are you talking about McDonalds? Pepsi? Harrahs? Tobacco?

This may be better discussed in the Psych Forum, but I think that weakness and addiction are certainly not at the top of the list as to why people lose money at poker. Some just like to gamble, knowing that they probably won't win. That's the price of the thrill of hitting a big win once in a while. Pride and ignorance have to be high on the list too, often in combination. This would be people who don't know how to play, while thinking they are big-time gamblers.

I think that the really weak and addicted tend to play slots and especially video poker. In any case, poker is a game between consenting adults, and there is no ethical question in my mind.

[surfdoc]

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doctors who charge insanely high fees to rip off the insurance companies

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I was following your line of reasoning right up until you made this point. While it certainly sounds good, it doesn't really work out like this. You see, it makes very little difference what we charge. All that matters when dealing with insurance companies is what they will pay. And, they won't pay "insanely high fees". In fact, they usually hold the honest hard workind doc hostage for some amount lower than what the services are worth. The insurance company will then simply stop paying the doc at all if the doc won't take the contracted (low) fee. Then, since the doc will no longer be a "preferred provider" he will no longer be able to see any of that companies patients.

Thus, maybe you should consider who is doing the ripping off here because clearly it is the insurance company and very rarely the doc.

[Alobar]

excellent post

[tripdad]

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doctors who charge insanely high fees to rip off the insurance companies

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I was following your line of reasoning right up until you made this point. While it certainly sounds good, it doesn't really work out like this. You see, it makes very little difference what we charge. All that matters when dealing with insurance companies is what they will pay. And, they won't pay "insanely high fees". In fact, they usually hold the honest hard workind doc hostage for some amount lower than what the services are worth. The insurance company will then simply stop paying the doc at all if the doc won't take the contracted (low) fee. Then, since the doc will no longer be a "preferred provider" he will no longer be able to see any of that companies patients.

Thus, maybe you should consider who is doing the ripping off here because clearly it is the insurance company and very rarely the doc.

[/ QUOTE ]

dingdingding. we have a winner. insurance companies have the politicians in their pockets.

cheers!

[gabyyyyy]

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Don't forget to mention the ethically questionable nature of making a living off of human weakness and addiction.

To the day he died, my father wouldn't tell people I played poker for a living. I'm OK with that

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny you brought that up, because I had this same discussion the other night.

It is kind of strange to make money off of anothers weakness. But hey that is with any buisness.

[rerazor]

"Don't forget to mention the ethically questionable nature of making a living off of human weakness and addiction."

That's the nature of capitalism. A Doctor charges thousands of dollars to perform life saving surgeries because that's what the market will bear. A business sells its product for whatever it can get away with whether it's fair or not. I don't feel particularly predatory playing poker.

[Klaus]

"I always thought poker pros were entertainers getting paid?"

Quote of the day.

[Rudbaeck]

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Don't forget to mention the ethically questionable nature of making a living off of human weakness and addiction.

To the day he died, my father wouldn't tell people I played poker for a living. I'm OK with that.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are the naked face of capitalism. When all the carefully orchestrated media sound bytes are washed away this is what capitalism is all about. The heart of the western way of life, the god given right to [censored] your neighbour over for every penny he's worth. Strangely enough this is the least bad (I refuse to use the word best) form of government we've discovered so far.

Reality is what you can get away with.

Atleast you aren't a lawyer.

[Blarg]

Lots of "real jobs" are ethically questionable, to say the least. Salesmen selling products and services they know are inferior, manufacturers making them, marketers marketing them, advertisers helping sell them, researchers designing them. Lawyers doing things of a dubious or outright awful nature in full knowledge of and approval of it; insurance agents in the profession of denying and delaying claims; bartenders and 7-11's selling booze to people it endangers, cigarette manufacturers, sellers, and distributors; tobacco growers; people making and selling unhealthful foods...the list goes on and on, and many of these things are at least as questionable as poker if not much more so, yet they are regarded with tolerance if not outright respect in comparison.

The ethical questions about poker are severely exaggerated. People have tried banning liquor and all sorts of other things supposedly trying to help us all help ourselves, and usually wound up only persecuting harmless people and vastly enriching criminals in the process.

The fewer priggish thugs disguised as benevolent patriarchs we have trying to stick their nose in everyone's private business and tell us what to do, the safer, happier, and more productive we are.

AMEN /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[FlFishOn]

Good points all.

I'm unsure of why my Dad had a problem with my choice of work. I didn't really find out about it until after he passed. I would guess it had more to do with the unproductive nature of professional poker. The same could easily be said of many other professions, all of sport to start.

I've made my peace with the moral issues and that's enough for me. I'm going fishing again tomorrow morning (8th day in a row) while many folks my age head off to a job they really don't like. Blackened redfish anyone?

[_And1_]

Salesmen, been that done that no thank you. Selling the great stuff is just alright, you know that the custemor will be pleased, but trying to fool someone to buy crap gets to me more than playing poker. The sucker will loose, ie isnt fooled/set up...

[MicroBob]

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but trying to fool someone to buy crap gets to me more than playing poker.

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I've briefly dabbled in that too and felt really terrible about what i was doing. It was just awful.


I'll defer to surfdoc's knowledge. I have never been a doctor nor worked for an insurance agency. Hell, I haven't even BEEN to a doctor in several years.
Just stating some stereotypes. Obviously most doctors don't try to rip anybody off to any kind of extreme. But there are still some doctors out there who are morally questionable within their job I suspect.


Sports might actually be more noble than other professions imo. they are providing a legitimate form of entertainment. they aren't going out of their way to try to rip anybody off. Thousands of fans enjoy going to various sporting events and paying money to be a part of the crowd and watch some of the best athletes compete as hard as they can.
Thousands more enjoy watching the athletes on TV...thus the leagues can charge the networks a few zillion dollars for the rights to broadcast the games.

Obviously there is some bit of morally questionable stuff going on with all the money involved.....but from the athlete's perspective, he's getting paid because he's one of the best in the world at what he does. He's not trying to rip anybody off. And anyone who pays money to go see a sporting event isn't getting ripped-off either for the most part....they buy the ticket pretty much knowing what kind of experience they will get.

At many levels in sports there isn't nearly as much swindling and conning going on as there might be in some of the grimier parts of law, politics, sales, insurance, etc etc.

[_And1_]

been in the sports agency bisnis (acctually that was my sales area) and heck if that isn't "dirty" i dont know what is.. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif