well... let's go Angels!!!

[ThaSaltCracka]

cuz I hate the sox!

[GuyOnTilt]

cuz I hate the sox!

How anybody who knows anything about baseball can root for the Angels is still beyond me...

GoT

[Dynasty]

The socks the Red Sox wear are actually two different shades of red. Try looking real closely at them.

[Non_Comformist]

If you would read revelations 23:312

"And it shall come to pass in 2004th year of our lord, the Yankees from New York shall play the Redsox of Boston in the Championship Series of the American League"

[ThaSaltCracka]

I hate the Red Sox so therefor I will never, under any circumstances, root for Boston.

[ThaSaltCracka]

why?

[daryn]

hating the red sox.. just doesn't make much sense. it's like hating the underdog. hating the guy who never wins. it just doesn't compute.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
it just doesn't compute.

[/ QUOTE ] Nerd


I root for winners, so thats why I don't like the sox. All the sox do is give their fans blue balls, and blue balls suck.

[daryn]

ok so root for winners bandwagon boy.. but how could one actually despise the other team?

it just makes sense to hate the yankees, you don't even have to be a boston fan.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Bandwagoner? Excuse me? You don't know me kid. I have always like the Yankees. I actually like Minnesota as well, and I hope they win, but regardless of who wins I am happy. Anaheim is the lesser of two evils for me though, so I hope they win, because there is nothing I want more than for bosox fans to cry again.

[andyfox]

. . .does some strange things out there in left field somtimes. [Molina's can of corn, bottom of the 5th]

[andyfox]

. . . worrying about Molina on first base?

[daryn]

sorry i was just going by this:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
I root for winners,

[/ QUOTE ]



haha.. "you don't know me kid."

what is this high school? do you want to fight me too?

get a grip

[ThaSaltCracka]

he has always done that. He sometimes looks absolutely terrible out there.

[ThaSaltCracka]

he thinks he is playing the yankees....

[ThaSaltCracka]

are you done???
I imagine you are getting testy, bases loaded, one out, with your ace on the mound.

[daryn]

even as i see that hit, somehow my life is ok.

[ThaSaltCracka]

is there any doubt that now that Vlad is more important than Manny this year?

[daryn]

if he struck out, would the opposite be true? anyway postseason doesn't matter when it comes to MVP voting, but i do think that vlad is ahead of manny.

[ThaSaltCracka]

but somewhat hallow without a sox championship, right?

[daryn]

yes, very hallow.

[ThaSaltCracka]

no, but it just solidifies it even more.

[ThaSaltCracka]

eckstein /images/graemlins/mad.gif grow some! get a real arm!

[ThaSaltCracka]

why Scoscia kept colon in is beyond me....

[kerssens]

The thing that I think is odd about Red Sox fans is that I think they almost don't want to win. I think the curse is more important to them. They bitch and moan about the Yankees and the curse but at the same time take pride that they're the most cursed team in baseball because the curse of the billygoat is just ridiculous. If the Red Sox ever win they'll lose their identity and won't know what to do next, won't be able to complain or try to make people feel sorry for them that they can't beat the big, bad yankees.

[daryn]

if you actually go to boston and talk to real people you'd be surprised. i don't believe in a curse, and i'm not sure i know anyone who does.

[kerssens]

could be a stereotype that gets played up in the media

[ThaSaltCracka]

you don't know many people do you.

[ThaSaltCracka]

LOL.

I think you are right.

[daryn]

bingo just like the dumb goat curse of the cubs. actually, that one is prob. a real curse.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I think it may be something people say to actually make themselves feel better about there team losing. Curses are as dumb as you daryn! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[daryn]

i think you can pick apart all of the sox failures and pinpoint certain things that caused them.

it's not a curse, it's poor managing, poor execution, etc.

do you believe pocket kings are ace magnets?

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it may be something people say to actually make themselves feel better about there team losing. Curses are as dumb as you daryn! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeez, someone's testy tonight.

I've been a psuedo Boston fan since 86, because as a Cards fan they were playing the hated Mets, so I felt like I needed to root for them. I was 10 years old, and I can still remember watching Wade Boggs crying in the dugout after the series clincher. I felt bad for the guy.

Actually, I want them to win the Series someday so people will get off of Bill Buckner's back a little. He's never gotten credit for how great of a career he had since that moment.

[ThaSaltCracka]

precisely

[ThaSaltCracka]

I am just messing with Daryn.

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I want them to win the Series someday so people will get off of Bill Buckner's back a little. He's never gotten credit for how great of a career he had since that moment.

[/ QUOTE ] This might be the only reason I would root for Boston, but it's still not likely.

[daryn]

i really think this is the year guys.. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[ThaSaltCracka]

that was a terrible call by the ump on that last pitch.

[daryn]

yeah we have been getting a lot of calls this game.

you know how you can tell when your team is just getting the shaft w/ every call? well i can feel it the other way tonight.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Figgins has sort been giving the red sox a couple extra outs this inning.

[GuyOnTilt]

This broadcast just solidied my belief that Chris Berman is THEE worst Baseball announcer in the biz.

GoT

[daryn]

it's tough to be worse than joe buck.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I stopped watching, but yeah you are right, he does suck.

[GuyOnTilt]

it's tough to be worse than joe buck.

Boomer rises to the challenge.

Just one of countless instances so far this game:

Pedro throws a 1 to 7 breaking ball that the batter takes for a strike on the inside third

Berman : Whoa, he really pulled the string on that one!

Me : What the fuck? Do you know a single thing about baseball?! Pulled the string??!! On a BREAKING BALL??!! That was TAKEN??!! How the fuck is this guy broadcasting on a national network is beyond me..

GoT

[ThaSaltCracka]

The ump behind the plate is doing a terrible job.

[Neil Stevens]

Why I'd rather see the Angels beat the Red Sox.

1. Scoscia is a good guy.

2. The new Angels owner deserves reward for freeing Angels fans from Disney.

3. I'm sick of hearing about how Red Sox and Yankees have a "rivalry," even though it's been far too one-sided to mean anything.

4. Did I mention I have a west coast bias as a response to the east coast bias of the press?

5. I'd like a Dodgers/Angels World Series.

[GuyOnTilt]

The ump behind the plate is doing a terrible job.

Not really. ESPN's K-Zone is a bunch of crap. The zone it shows is way too small. MLB umps consistently call the plate a couple inches wide on either side. They also call a little bit lower than the K-Zone. The top of the ball at the bottom of the knee cap is a strike for some umps, but the K-Zone has the line at the bottom of the ball at the top of the knee cap. Seriously, pay absolutely no attention to that stupid white box.

GoT

[Clarkmeister]

"I'm sick of hearing about how Red Sox and Yankees have a "rivalry," "

It's almost as good a rivalry as the one between The Hammer and The Nail.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
"I'm sick of hearing about how Red Sox and Yankees have a "rivalry," "

It's almost as good a rivalry as the one between The Hammer and The Nail.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Washington Generals have actually won games against the Harlem Globetrotters.

[Joe Tall]

W00T w00T!!

CU in Fenway!! Oh yes, I'll be there!

Love,
Joe Tall

[ThaSaltCracka]

um, the umps pretty much blew a bunch of calls. They would call pitches barely outside balls on Boston and strikes on Anaheim, thats what I was referring to.

I saw Belhourn get walked on a borderline pitch, which according to your rules would be a strike, but that shouldn't matter because K-Zone showed it a freakin strike. Then you see Glaus get called out on a strike which according to you should be a strike, but was atleast 3 inches off the plate.

[RcrdBoy]

[ QUOTE ]
hating the red sox.. just doesn't make much sense. it's like hating the underdog. hating the guy who never wins. it just doesn't compute.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's like calling Paul Allen the underdog.

The Red Sox win almost every year (4 losing seasons since 1967). They go to the playoffs a lot (3rd most in the AL since 1900)and they usually have the second highest payroll in baseball.

Not exactly the underdog. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[illini99]

I can't stand Berman, but I think I'll defend him here. I've heard the term "pulling the string" to describe a curveball a lot of times. I think it refers to the motion of the pitcher's hand when he releases the ball.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
cuz I hate the sox!

[/ QUOTE ]

Very late entry into this thread but Salty you really should get to know this team a little better. They are quite a bunch of characters, very likable.

[ThaSaltCracka]

The only player I dislike is Pedro, the rest do crack me up, but as a team I can't root for them, sorry.

My buddies and I constantly laugh at Damon. How can someone who throws that much like a girl, be in the majors???

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
The only player I dislike is Pedro, the rest do crack me up, but as a team I can't root for them, sorry.

My buddies and I constantly laugh at Damon. How can someone who throws that much like a girl, be in the majors???

[/ QUOTE ]

He does throw like a girl, we laugh about it all the time, but he does just about everything else well.

Rarely does his arm afect the outcome of a game which wasn't the case with the Twinkies right fielder in the game last night. Why the hell was he throwing to the cut off man on a ball that shallow. They should have had a decent shot at nailing Jeter at the plate.

But it's all good. Most of Red Sox nation want to face the Yankees anyway. Not necessarily that we think they will be easier to beat, I certainly don't. If the Sox finally win it all it will be kind of hollow if we don't have to go through New York to do it.

So let the Twins and Yankees beat each other up for a grueling 5 game series while we hopefully take care of business tommorrow night.

[andyfox]

Shouldn't you go with your best in a critical game? Down only one run, keeping the score 4-3 was imperative. Percy hadn't pitched the day before and today is an off-day.

[andyfox]

You ever see Bernie Williams throw? Or Garret Anderson? Everybody's got some holes in their game.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Rarely does his arm afect the outcome of a game which wasn't the case with the Twinkies right fielder in the game last night. Why the hell was he throwing to the cut off man on a ball that shallow. They should have had a decent shot at nailing Jeter at the plate.

[/ QUOTE ] The hit made Jones step back a few steps and reach up, because of this he didn't have his feet set to make a good throw home. If he could get his feet set, I think he nails Jeter because he was playing far shallower than usual.


BTW, do you guys laugh whenever Damon runs too? I love watching him and Byrnes play because they both look like Cavemen out there. Good thing they both can play, but Damon still has the arm of a little girl.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Good question, I suppose they wanted to go to their go-to guy Donnelly /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
You ever see Bernie Williams throw? Or Garret Anderson? Everybody's got some holes in their game.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's typical of all CF in this era to really not have good arms. I know there are some exceptions but mostly they are out there to run down fly balls and close the gap on doubles so that they don't turn into triples. Griffey never really had a great arm.

Usually the LF and RF have the best arms so they can throw runners out at home on fly balls /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Toro]

When the Sox played the yanks in a late season game that was the Fox game of the week, Fox did a funny intro that was Star Wars based. Of course, the yankees were the Evil Empire. Guess who Johnny Damon was? You might not think of it right away but shown side by side, it was hilarious.

[ThaSaltCracka]

okay, I didn't see the game but I am going to guess...
Jar Jar Binks.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
okay, I didn't see the game but I am going to guess...
Jar Jar Binks.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. I'll give you a hint and one more guess. They have similar hair.

[GuyOnTilt]

I can't stand Berman, but I think I'll defend him here. I've heard the term "pulling the string" to describe a curveball a lot of times. I think it refers to the motion of the pitcher's hand when he releases the ball.

That's not what the term refers to at all. "Pulling the string" refers to the hitter's perception of an offspeed pitch and almost always refers to a changeup. The ball appears to be a fastball of one type or another, and then when the batter begins to swing at it, it's all of a sudden not as close as it should be, as if it were attached to a string and the pitcher "pulled the string" on it. That term really requires that the pitch be swung at to have any sort of relevant whatsoever, and it does not refer to the type of curveball that Pedro has.

GoT

GoT

[andyfox]

I once saw Willie Mays airmail a throw to the backstop from medium center field at Dodger Stadium. And this was towards the end of his career, probably 1970 or so, when he would have been 39.

OT: The first baseball book I remember reading, which I alluded to in another thread, had a story about Mays which I still remember. The writer said Mays was told he was the most exciting player in the game. Mays responded by saying he doesn't get excited, why would somebody say that, he's very calm during a game. The writer then said that it was explained to Mays what the difference was between "exciting" and "excited."

It was supposed to be a cute story, and I remember being amused as a kid. But now it seems that maybe it wasn't so cute. That maybe they were (un?)consciously insulting Mays's intelligence in a way that was acceptable for white writers to do in 1960.

[andyfox]

There is, as I said before, a first time for everything. Especially when Clemens and Pettitte no longer have pinstripes on.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Is it Chewbacca?

[ThaSaltCracka]

Yeah Mays is one of those exceptions. But remember he played in an era in which nerds weren't computing optimal strategy, so it's likely some "dumb" manager would "waste" him in CF, because as well all know now, the "smart" thing to do is put someone like him in left or right. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I really wish I could have seen him play.

[andyfox]

. . . how do you get picked off second base with the bases loaded?

I once saw Willie Davis get picked off first base with the bases loaded. My date, who knew nothing about baseball but, I was hoping, knew other, more important things (turns out she didn't--funny how we remember such things), had been patiently listening to me explaining how the game worked for an hour. After Davis got picked off, she kind of looked puzzled for a while and then, finally, inquired, "Where was he going?"

Pretty perceptive. I'm sure the manager might well have asked Davis the same thing when he got into the dugout.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
how do you get picked off second base with the bases loaded?


[/ QUOTE ] Lack oh heart I think /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I dunno, but no one ever said the Red Sox were good baserunners, with maybe the exception of a few players.

[GuyOnTilt]

"Where was he going?"

Not to make excuses for him 'cause it really is inexcuseable, but at least he was hungry to score on a base hit. Being aggressive on the bases is a hell of a lot better than standing on your heels in that situation.

GoT

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Not to make excuses for him 'cause it really is inexcuseable, but at least he was hungry to score on a base hit.

[/ QUOTE ] He is scoring on any hit back up the middle or to rightfield, but he is only going to be able to score(realistically) on nothing less than a double if the ball is hit to leftfield. How many outs where there?

[GuyOnTilt]

He is scoring on any hit back up the middle or to rightfield, but he is only going to be able to score(realistically) on nothing less than a double if the ball is hit to leftfield.

Hey, I'm on your side. I was just saying, if there were an excuse to be made, that would be it.

How many outs where there?

I believe two, but that's much better than making the same mistake with one out or nobody out, disregarding who was at the plate at the time (I don't remember).

GoT

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, I'm on your side. I was just saying, if there were an excuse to be made, that would be it.


[/ QUOTE ] yeah I guess, but I am not sure there is really any excuse for getting picked off at second, unless your base coach didn't tell you where the SS was.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it Chewbacca?

[/ QUOTE ]

Y

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
. . . how do you get picked off second base with the bases loaded?

[/ QUOTE ]

The replay only gave a little glimpse of it but it looked like he was just getting your normal lead and semi jump when the pitch was thrown but when he went to go back to the bag he fell down and stumbled when he tried to recover.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I thought that would be to obvious, so I guessed Jar Jar. I really think there are some similarities too.

http://cache.boston.com/sports/galleries/look_alike/damon.jpg

http://www.jimrome.com/archives/september0/9232003/quote_unquote.generalcontentmap.0042.Image.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38090000/jpg/_38090366_binks150.jpg

[GuyOnTilt]

unless your base coach didn't tell you where the SS was.

OT, but this is another one of those Little League'ish coaching mistakes. As a runner on second, it shouldn't matter to you where the shortstop is. Just take a lead that allows you to get back regardless. Your lead in situations like that isn't important anyway, it's your secondary. When the ball gets to the action zone you should have a decent secondary and your momentum moving toward third. A big or even decent-sized lead is not required one bit from second in that scenario. You simply have no place to go. In the same vein, third base is consistently miscoached as well. Players are taught to take a lead of a few steps, and then take a couple more when they're sure that the pitcher is delivering home. Then they end up sitting 5 or 6 steps off third at a dead stand still when the ball is approaching the plate. Taught correctly, you should get basically no lead at all off of third, start walking down the line when you're sure the pitcher is delivering home, and be gaining momentum in your secondary as the ball approached the plate. If it's in the dirt or hit on the ground, you simply continue your momentum toward the plate in a sprint. If the balls blocked or not swung at, you bite hard. The ESPN announcers pointing out Jeter's small lead at third in the 12th last night was about the one thing that actually impressed me about their broadcast.

GoT

[ThaSaltCracka]

In that situation, the base coach should be watching the SS for Belhourn. Belhourns responsibility is to watch the 2B to see if he is going to the bag for a pick off, and he relies on the base coach to watch the SS for the same thing.

[ QUOTE ]
A big or even decent-sized lead is not required one bit from second in that scenario.

[/ QUOTE ] You already get bigger leads at second than you do at 1st so you are right.

[GuyOnTilt]

In that situation, the base coach should be watching the SS for Belhourn. Belhourns responsibility is to watch the 2B to see if he is going to the bag for a pick off, and he relies on the base coach to watch the SS for the same thing.

Bleh. That's exactly the kind of miscoaching and bad baserunning I was talking about. Reread my post. The size of his lead there DOES NOT MATTTER WHATSOEVER. Take a copule steps off and deep and get a decent secondary with momentum toward third. Ask yourself, why are you worried about getting a decent sized lead off of 2nd???

GoT

[ThaSaltCracka]

I am not saying anything about getting leads at second. You can have a normal lead and not notice the SS coming over and be picked off pretty easy. I am just saying that as a base runner on second, your role is to watch the 2B and the 3rd base coach watches the SS.

[Toro]

I think you're all remembering this play wrong. It wasn't a pick off. It was the catcher who threw him out not the pitcher. On the pitch, Bellhorn(could be elected to the redundant name Hall of Fame) got the usual running lead off 2nd. Then as he attempted to return to 2nd he tripped and fell. The catcher saw this and fired to 2nd and he was a dead duck. The whole play happened not out of stupidity by anyone, the guy just tripped and fell.

Of course I can be magnaminous about this after the team got the goat horns off him with a nice win.

[ThaSaltCracka]

yeah your right, I apparently have the play wrong, but as a rule of thumb, what I was saying holds true.

[ QUOTE ]
On the pitch, Bellhorn(could be elected to the redundant name Hall of Fame) got the usual running lead off 2nd

[/ QUOTE ] I think GoT has been saying though that this lead off was totally unnessecary, and I would agree with that.

[GuyOnTilt]

I am just saying that as a base runner on second, your role is to watch the 2B and the 3rd base coach watches the SS.

And I'm saying you're wrong and that's an area that's completely miscoached at lower levels. Your job is to watch the pitcher. If he steps off or comes back, you get back to the base. It should be pretty easy if you're not getting a big lead, which you shouldn't be because of reasons I already explained. Watching the second baseman while the base coach watches the SS and is constantly talking in your ear about his positioning is what you're (incorrectly) taught at lower levels. Correct coaching, and how they will coach you at higher levels, is to get a relatively small lead so that all you have to focus on is the pitcher, and that it's your secondary, not your initial lead, that's important.

GoT

[GuyOnTilt]

I think you're all remembering this play wrong. It wasn't a pick off. It was the catcher who threw him out not the pitcher.

I know. Like I said, this was OT, but it's a very commonly miscoached and widely accepted misconception about baserunning from second and third that I thought was worth saying something about.

GoT

[ThaSaltCracka]

it is possible to look at the pitcher and the 2B at relatively the same time.

[ QUOTE ]
Watching the second baseman while the base coach watches the SS and is constantly talking in your ear about his positioning is what you're (incorrectly) taught at lower levels

[/ QUOTE ] They do this in the majors, and in fact I have heard several ex-players who are now commentators state this as well during the game.

[andyfox]

2 outs, Ortiz at bat.

Bonehead play of the day.

[GuyOnTilt]

They do this in the majors

Yes, they do. It's not the best way though. Glancing over at the second baseman when you're getting your lead is fine, but he shouldn't be in your mind at all when the pitcher is set. Major Leaguers also don't run out grounders into the hole at short or slide each other in at home, but that doesn't mean it's not the best way to play the game. The little things (e.g. leading off at second correctly) don't matter to the majority of them.

GoT

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, they do. It's not the best way though.

[/ QUOTE ] I think this may be based upon coaching style. Some managers want their baserunners to be agressive out there, so they may teach their players to try to get bigger leads. While some managers may want a more conservative approach so they would like smaller leads. I dunno, I think it really depends on that, because what you are saying has some validity to it, IMO, but I can also see why the complete opposite may work too.

[ QUOTE ]
Major Leaguers also don't run out grounders into the hole at short or slide each other in at home, but that doesn't mean it's not the best way to play the game.

[/ QUOTE ] Not sure what you are talking about here. I always see players that are on deck telling their teamates if they need to slide into home. As for running out hits through the whole, why? Unless you are saying that hitters are getting thrown out by SS who make great plays at short because the runner isnt running out his hit.

[GuyOnTilt]

Some managers want their baserunners to be agressive out there, so they may teach their players to try to get bigger leads. While some managers may want a more conservative approach so they would like smaller leads.

This is probably true. What I'm contending though is that the size of your initial lead with a runner on third (and most of the times without a runner on third) does not matter at all, much in the same way your initial lead off of third base does not matter at all (which in my mind can't be contested, yet is miscoached [or not coached at all] virtually everywhere at every level).

Not sure what you are talking about here. I always see players that are on deck telling their teamates if they need to slide into home.

Almost all MLB players tell their runner to slide, but not a ton of them tell their player where to slide, which is really what they're there for. As a runner who know instinctively and since you're looking at the catcher if there's gonna be a play at the plate and that you need to slide. What you don't know is what area of the cutout the ball is coming to and how the catcher is going to be positioned and thus how and where you should slide in (or away) from the plate. That's the on-deck batter's job, and not a whole lot of them do it; most just wave their arms in a motion indicating that you need to slide, which isn't really very helpful.

GoT

[kerssens]

[ QUOTE ]
. . how do you get picked off second base with the bases loaded?

I once saw Willie Davis get picked off first base with the bases loaded.

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember seeing Scott Bradley (help me out M's fans if I'm wrong on the name) get thrown out at home on a single to right when he was on third.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Some managers want their baserunners to be agressive out there, so they may teach their players to try to get bigger leads. While some managers may want a more conservative approach so they would like smaller leads.

This is probably true. What I'm contending though is that the size of your initial lead with a runner on third (and most of the times without a runner on third) does not matter at all, much in the same way your initial lead off of third base does not matter at all (which in my mind can't be contested, yet is miscoached [or not coached at all] virtually everywhere at every level).

[/ QUOTE ]

We are bumping heads here, so I don't really know where to go with this. I will just refer to my early statement about coaching/playing style and end it there.


As for the sliding thing, you are probably right, but I wonder how hard it is to rely a message to a runner on where to slide. I suppose they could develop some sort of system but who knows. It always seems to me that the best place for a runner to slide into home is outside with a your back hand, but sometimes it calls for a straight slide right in. I dunno, this all seems really hard to know which and where to slide at home when its basically a split second decision.

[GuyOnTilt]

We are bumping heads here, so I don't really know where to go with this.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not really trying to argue here. I just enjoy talking baseball strat.

As for the sliding thing, you are probably right, but I wonder how hard it is to rely a message to a runner on where to slide. I suppose they could develop some sort of system but who knows. It always seems to me that the best place for a runner to slide into home is outside with a your back hand, but sometimes it calls for a straight slide right in. I dunno, this all seems really hard to know which and where to slide at home when its basically a split second decision.

Yeah, it's usually outside with your left hand or outside headfirst kicking your legs out and catching with your left hand, but often it's inside with your right right. It completely depends on where the throw to the plate goes, and the runner really can't know that unless the ondeck batter's doing his job.

GoT

[B00T]

Here is my take for what its worth. Molina did not see Bellhorn slip and then decide to fire the ball to second. Bellhorn was in La-la land the previous couple of pitches which gave Eckstein the heads up to play near him. That or Eckstein realized he was taking way too large of a lead after the pitch. I am leaning towards the first scenario. Eckstein then must of relayed whatever sign to Molina or to the bench for a throw to second base. Since Bellhorn was napping he totally was not expecting the throw. Once he saw the throw he was like "Oh crap" and hastily tried to get back to second base. In that hastiness he tripped (almost as if he was asleep and the alarm clock went off right next to him and jerked his body back to reality). FWIW I am almost positive he would of been out anyway even if he didnt stumble on his attempt getting back to second base.

It was 2 outs, bases loaded with David Ortiz at bat.

[ThaSaltCracka]

your scenario is entirely possible.

[Toro]

If that's what happened, Bellhorn is a total bonehead who strikes out too often and should be burnt in effigy on Landsdowne Street. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
. . how do you get picked off second base with the bases loaded?

I once saw Willie Davis get picked off first base with the bases loaded.

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I remember seeing Scott Bradley (help me out M's fans if I'm wrong on the name) get thrown out at home on a single to right when he was on third.

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what about when the sox almost successfully threw out benji molina at first base when he singled into right field.

[ThaSaltCracka]

thats been done before, plus Molina is a slow fat catcher.

[andyfox]

Used to be a catcher named Ernie Lombardi, played in the '30s and '40s, now in the Hall of Fame, great hitter, won two batting titles (I think). According to Bill James, people who saw him play say he hit the ball harder than anybody. And that he was the slowest runner ever. Supposedly, he got thrown out on first on line drive singles to LEFT field. James has a great, long story on him in his Historical Abstract.

[andyfox]

Because he knew he had to win the game and, therefore, had to give himself his best chance to keep it close. Scioscia made a mistake not doing the same last night with Percival.