78s in the BB

[The Setup]

No info on my opponent. 78s is probably as low as I go in a situation like this, does anyone go lower? I like the stop and go as I think it confuses opponents as betting into the raiser on the turn seems weak. Comments on all steets appreciated.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (4 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button calls.

River: (10.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

[kiddo]

I would call 65s preflop.

Like your turnaction. But if button was raising flop as a (semi)bluff and is a decent player he is capable of folding turn when you bet into him as long as you normally isnt very tricky. (not many of those decent ones at 1/2 I guess but at higher limits)

Normally I would checkraise turn, he will not automatically put you on flush headsup. But betting into him is also good.

[Nemesis]

Would a flop checkraise be out of order? I think it has value as a semi bluff.

[The Setup]

I used to check-raise the flop as a semi-bluff however the pre-flop raiser won't fold to a check-raise so the bluff part is out IMO. However I don't know if the way I played it is optimal. It just felt right at the time.

[joker122]

87s is an easy defend in a full game, in a 4 handed game it's even easier.

CR this flop. Betting doesn't do anything for you. A majority of the time he will raise regardless of his holding. You've gained no information and have let him keep the lead in the hand. By checkraising you can often pick up the pot on the turn with a bet.

[joker122]

You're right, he'll call this CR with about any 2 cards. But if you follow up with a turn bet it will be very hard for him to call without some piece of the board.

[Schneids]

If I bet out on this flop I think I do it with the intentions of 3-betting and setting myself up for taking it down on the turn. Getting raised on the flop is typical and done by opponents holding a wide variety of cards, so, I feel betting out with the intentions of calling a raise does not help you towards winning the pot unless you do catch a flush.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
I used to check-raise the flop as a semi-bluff however the pre-flop raiser won't fold to a check-raise so the bluff part is out IMO. However I don't know if the way I played it is optimal. It just felt right at the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Semibluffs often have more credibility when you're making a play at a scary board (e.g. a high card board against a preflop raiser). I think this is a good spot for a c/raise.

[imitation]

I think you should 3 bet the flop or CR

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
I used to check-raise the flop as a semi-bluff however the pre-flop raiser won't fold to a check-raise so the bluff part is out IMO. However I don't know if the way I played it is optimal. It just felt right at the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting into him ain't gonna win the pot much eaither as a raise is going to be thrown in your face 75% of the time and betting out and calling has accomplished nothing. It's certainly not for value.

The best way to approach this is check/call or as I would prefer checkraise as a semibluff.

[imitation]

oh yeh check calling is pretty standard infact against most 1/2 players as well, some of the guys don't even know what a steal is.

[naphand]

You have options on the flop, and I think there is no obvious line. CR the flop is not going to get you a free card as you are first to act, so it is really about judging your opponent. If he 3-bets you can be sure he has an A or, less likely Q, unless a complete LAG (with any PP). Betting out does look weak, but in fact sets you up for the 3-bet on the Turn against the right player, who might see your Turn bet as an "obvious" bluff after a failed flop steal.

Against a player who won't fold, you are drawing and check-calling has to be the right choice on the flop with no pair for you. You cannot buy a free card and could face a 3-bet from any A. Playing draws aggressively HU is good against players who are not calling stations, or who will fold hands like K9, low PP or 2 x /images/graemlins/club.gif.

If there is a reasonable chance to win this hand against a PF steal, then CR looks much stronger. I think Schneids 3-bet play needs the right game conditions, perhaps not likely at Stars $1/2.

Your bet out on the Turn was spot on, you took the chance he sees it as a bluff and got paid off by putting in the 3-bet. Excellent choice, though clearly not based on any read (?).

This is a good hand, the only question is the flop play, and I think the bet out was probably the worst of 3 options (check-call a loose calling station, CR a tighter player you put on a steal).


STANDARDS

I would call down to 56s in a full ring game with a multi-way pot, certainly 78s is playable SH but I am not sure about 56s and 67s. High card value counts for more in these games and a top card of 6 is going to see plenty of overcards.

I am trying to look through my stats for playing blinds with suited connectors, and the results are certainly dependent on the number of players seeing the flop. Hands as low as 56s (poss even 45s) play well HU to a raise in BB and also in bigger multi-way pots (5 seeing the flop - less likely SH). But these hands are in trouble with 3-4 seeing the flop, as there are "more" overcards that can hurt you, as you now face up 4 pocket overcards, so the pair equity is much less, you are relying on hitting a big hand or draw. With 3-4 seeing the flop I think 78s is the bottom end and quite possibly 89s or even T9s depending on your opponents (I do not have enough stats to be sure). In these cases you are probably looking for trips or a flush/straight draw and players who will pay you off when you do hit.