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View Full Version : Is there any way to protect my hand here?

TripleH68
10-06-2004, 03:40 AM
PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed)

MP3 and CO are new to the table.

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $3. CO posts a blind of $3.
UTG calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, CO (poster) checks, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (7 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 folds, CO calls.

River: (9 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB
Joe Tall
10-06-2004, 03:47 AM
With the 2 extra postings your preflop raise is fine. Normally, I'd just complete w/AJo out of position here.

After that I think you chose a good line.

Peace,
Joe Tall
TripleH68
10-06-2004, 04:11 AM
It seemed like I made the right plays. Lost to your average suck out...Q8o for two pair. The ladies never like me.
jtr
10-06-2004, 07:05 AM
Can't see there's anything else you could have done, but I think you know that.
chesspain
10-06-2004, 08:00 AM
[ QUOTE ]
With the 2 extra postings your preflop raise is fine. Normally, I'd just complete w/AJo out of position here.

After that I think you chose a good line.


[/ QUOTE ]

Against an unknown CO poster opponent, can checkcalling the river really be higher EV than betting out (and folding to a raise)?
spamuell
10-06-2004, 08:15 AM
[ QUOTE ]

Against an unknown CO poster opponent, can checkcalling the river really be higher EV than betting out (and folding to a raise)?

[/ QUOTE ]

My exact thoughts. Check-calling is definitely wrong here, bet-folding is much better.
Joe Tall
10-06-2004, 05:44 PM
Against an unknown CO poster opponent, can checkcalling the river really be higher EV than betting out (and folding to a raise)?

With two new opponents and the likelyhood of our player behing behind; I like check/calling here as his hand has showdown potential. Surely only a better hand heads-up is going to call/raise. If we induce a river bluff, we make a bet, if he has a better hand and doesn't like it, we get a free showdown.

Peace,
Joe Tall
spamuell
10-06-2004, 07:05 PM
Hey Joe,

With two new opponents and the likelyhood of our player behing behind;

Two new opponents? Well, yeah, at the beginning of the hand but the river is heads-up.

I like check/calling here as his hand has showdown potential.

Showdown potential? Absolutely. It's probably the best hand.

Surely only a better hand heads-up is going to call/raise.

I would say that only a better hand will raise. Call though? No way and that is why we differ in view on this river. The poster could have a worse J, a pocket pair, an eight, A-high, whatever. Yeah, he could also have hit his straight on the river.

Pretty much the only time checking is better in my view is when he has Q9 or AQ and would have checked behind, or when he missed his gutshot or flush draw and would have bluffed. There are also a few other random hands which are better than your with which he will check behind here, but there are also lots of bad hands he'll call you with here. I think you betting and him calling with a worse hand happens much more often than him bluffing with a worse hand. Furthermore, if you check-call he gets to check through the crappy pairs he would have called with and value bet the hands which beat you.

So, overall, I think betting is clearly better if you can fold to a raise, which I think you can. (Was it JR who was talking about floaters earlier?)

It reminds me a little of this thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=smallholdem&amp;Number=876914&amp; Forum=f3&amp;Words=&amp;Searchpage=0&amp;Limit=25&amp;Main=871284&amp; Search=true&amp;where=bodysub&amp;Name=2961&amp;daterange=1&amp;ne werval=1&amp;newertype=y&amp;olderval=&amp;oldertype=&amp;bodyprev =1#Post876914), in that you have a showdownable hand out of position heads-up on the river.