O Doyle needs help please? Hand # 1 JhTh

[O Doyle Rules]

Hi all,

A little background first. Long time grinder at the $3/$6 games at empire & party. Moved into the $5/$10 SH games, experienced success, but not nearly the hands and time spent at the $3/$6. I have twice attempted moving up to the big leagues ($15/$30 and $10/$20SH) with terrible results. (150 BB loss at $15/$30 and 200 BB loss at $10/$20 SH) With all your kind help, hopefully when I attempt this for a third time it will be different. Hand # 1 for your consideration. (Looking back, I think I see the obvious mistakes, but would just like to confirm it in my mind.) Thanks to all who respond.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP 3-bets</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks.

River: (6.75 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero has Jh Th (two pair, tens and fives).
MP has 8c 8s (full house, eights full of fives).
Outcome: MP wins 10.75 BB. </font>

[Guido]

When you 3-bet the flop you should bet the turn. I don't see what the 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif changes.

I fold to a river raise too.

Thanks,

Guido

[ToneLoc]

I fold to a river raise too.

That seems a bit tight to me... The guy might have a busted spade draw after all, which could well explain why he checked back on the Hero's check on the turn.
An yes, if you three-bet the flop I think you have to bet the turn as well...

[applej25]

I don't really like the preflop raise here. Your hand is a drawing hand and you want as many people in as possible, so why raise and scare out hands worse than yours? In most cases, only better hands will call you. Why not see the flop cheaply and go from there. If it misses you, easy fold. If it hits you, it could hit you hard and hopefully it would be multiway at least to the turn.

Now since you did raise I do agree with play on the flop and definitely agree with the others that you have to bet the turn here. Unfortunately no real way to see that he spiked a set on the river.

Just my 2 cents.......

[MisterKing]

Haven't read the results, but the betting pattern looks to me like QJ, perhaps suited. Also likely is 88 or As5s (but who is 3-betting this in MP???). Given his range of hands, and the flop raise/turn check/river raise, I'm thinking you're behind a majority of the time here. Trickier opponents will bluff raise the river with a busted draw, but this looks like something more than that.

My question -- why on earth did you check that turn card?

[O Doyle Rules]

Temporary insanity? I don't have a clue what I was thinking here. It is very obvious to bet the turn...

Assuming I bet turn and he calls..anyone folding to the raise on the river still?

[applej25]

Too big of a mistake not to call the river. Pot is so large if you fold and are wrong youve lost a lot more than the one more big bet it will cost you to call.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Pot is so large if you fold and are wrong youve lost a lot more than the one more big bet it will cost you to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pot isn't really that big.

[applej25]

If you think its 'not that big' consider this. There is 10.75 bb in the pot. Thats 217 dollars roughly. So basically an incorrect fold will cost you 217 dollars while an incorrect call will cost you 20. So I call here with any hand that has at least a 10% chance of winning, which is basically any hand you go to the river with except a busted draw. The only time a fold is in order is if you have information that you KNOW 100% that you are beat. WHich means you know the opponent well, he NEVER bluffs, etc. But in this case i call with any inkling that I might have the best hand.