quick question

no limit home game with a very good, very tricky, very solid player. i consider him the best player out of our group of college players in terms of skill, hand reading, everything. he's just a talented guy, triple major in comp sci, english and art history; ranked number 2 in pool in his age group, expert pianist, runs a mile in about 5 minutes, and this amount of money isn't that much for him, he's well-off and plays the game for fun...


it's heads up, it's late, he's got about 300 and i have around 150. [the game started about 10 hours ago with about 10 people w/ about a 5 dollar buy in, and they kept rebuying and it's just us two now, keep in mind it's not a tourney or anything]


i'm in the blind [$1 blind] and have 7d-5d.


he raises a dollar and i call.


his raises when it was 3 handed a few minutes ago didn't mean much, he raised 6 hands straight w/ absolutely nothing just to get money in the pot [b/c he had the chip stack, he can outplay us easily on the flop] until i stopped him and won about a 20 dollar pot w/ bottom pair calling his ace high 15 dollar bet on the river bluff/bet w/ ace high.


moving on...

4 bucks in the pot.


flop: Kd-4d-5s


this gives me a pair of fives with a four-flush draw.


i bet 4 dollars and he calls and raises 10 bucks more. i call.


there is 32 now in the pot.


turn: 6c


i know have a open-ended straight draw with a flush draw and a junkie pair.

i check and he goes all in after hesitating for a few seconds... [silence for 3 minutes] it was 6am and u can hear everything 5 miles away...

i start thinking about previous plays where he's folded to my all in bets for around the same amount of money w/ trip fives on a J-5-5 board and i had pocket jacks...[where he made a good laydown] and other times where he's gone all-in like this on merely flush draws and knocked me off of top pair, top kicker [where my hand would've held up and won]


what would you do and what would you have differently up to this point?


i'm assuming it's a clear fold because of the description that although he's a tricky player, he's a solid player, one who doesn't play maniacal.


thanks for your responses.

sorry, that wasn't really a quick question...but here's the results:


i stupidly called, i have no idea why, it was late and we were all losing our sanity...now that i think about it, i don't see any reason in calling b/c my implied odds were destroyed, and if he was bluffing w/ over cards, he wouldn't play A-Q so aggresively on the flop, the reasonable hands i see him w/ after the flop raises are either aces or ace-king, but that didn't come to my mind. i thought about him having a flush draw but he plays them more agressively than that on the flop.


i said 'i call' i flipped my hand over and he flips his,


a-k off, top pair, top kicker,


i quickly say, 'let's split the pot' and i tell him about all the draws i have and after a minute, he decides to split.


the river was a blank and he would've won.


Although he's a talented guy and the best in our group in cards, i feel that one of his weaknesses are splitting the pot b/c in situations like this. he'll often be ahead and split the pot for some reason, yet he wins so much in our games from marginal holdings and stealing pretty big pots. He doesn't like to get drawn out on even though this money isn't that much for him.


if i were in his situation, i would never split the pot like that, i always just play my hands out if i know i'm ahead.


am i missing something here that i don't know...any 3, any 8 any diamond [he doesn't have a diamond], or 5 would have won it for me, and everything else, he would have won.


basically, my question is, would u split the pot in his situation?


thanks again

Absolutely spit the pot, with an open ended straight, flush draw, and a pair with one card to come you had 17 outs from 46 unseen cards (also remember at this point there is no guarantee that trip fours would be a winner)...you have a 37% chance to make your hand, the best that pot could offer you was even money. Splitting works out in your favor.


--CARDuerr

I count more than 17 outs. Any 7 would also give you the pot.. so you've got 4 3's, 4 8's, 3 7's, 2 5's, and 9 diamonds left in the deck. So, doing some very complicated math, that's 22 outs, and with 8 cards already out, that's 44 cards left. So mathematically, it's a coin flip in terms of your winning that hand, so a split pot is actually fair for both parties. Or am I missing something?

Oops, sorry, counted the 3d and 8d twice. So 20 outs with 44 cards remaining. You're a very slight underdog to win, and with that much on the line, I would offer to split, and if I had the AK, I'd probably take the split.

With the odds in favour of the made hand, and if the actual sum of money didn't mean a lot to me, I would never split, unless I could take a better than equity deal.


Why make an allin bet and then let someone take the call back just because they have a good draw? The last thing I would like happening is people thinking they can call and split if they are behind, but just take all my money if I'm bluffing. Make an allin count and never split. If you lose the pot it's only money, but if you accept a split you lose the fear weapon.

Good point but in Alex's case he was getting a better than equal deal. We would win the pot 44% of the time based on the revised calculations of Sooga (thanks). An even $ split is a good proposition for him. If you were in his shoes would you offer to split against a made hand?


CARDuerr

Yeah I'd split if i was the caller for sure. Alex was very lucky to be playing against a guy that would let him split.