poker tells

[Felipe]

hello. I want to know about tells. My questions are

1. on the flop, player is first or second to act, and checks with good-to-verygood cards, will they look down? Will they look at other players' betting habits/patterns? will they look at other players' faces/bodies/tells?

2. When they check with poor-medium hands, what do they do? Look at other peoples' betting styles/habits/patterns? Or do they look at other people and their tells (etc.)

Essentially, what I want to know is whether or not a player is attempting to trap or check raise, or will they fold if I bet or raise. Obviously it is a personal thing, e.body reacts differently, but most people react similarly (in my opinion)


Thank you
-Felipe

ps. please don't recommend me to read this book or that book. I'm posting in the forum cause I don't have 'said' books.

[JFB37]

Start with the basics -- betting pattern in previous hands and what has happened in this hand.

1. Did they raise before the flop? If so, what do they typically raise with? Do they typically bet out after a pf raise or not?

2. What was the flop? How likely was it to have hit them? If they were going to check raise, what could they be doing it with? A set? Top two? A big draw?

Always consider these factors.

As for physical tells, I think the most reliable is looking at, our touching chips. On Saturday, I caught a screaming one. A pretty tight player in early position looked at his chips, started to reach for them, and then tapped the table. I had been planning to bet but based on what I saw, I checked. The third person in the pot, behind me, was oblivious and threw in a bet. Sure enough, a big check raise followed. I mucked immediately and, sure enough, Mr. c/r had the goods.

[Felipe]

=

[danderso8]

[ QUOTE ]
As for physical tells, I think the most reliable is looking at, our touching chips. On Saturday, I caught a screaming one. A pretty tight player in early position looked at his chips, started to reach for them, and then tapped the table. I had been planning to bet but based on what I saw, I checked. The third person in the pot, behind me, was oblivious and threw in a bet. Sure enough, a big check raise followed. I mucked immediately and, sure enough, Mr. c/r had the goods.

[/ QUOTE ]

This one is also a relatively easy one to fake, and sometimes earn yourself a free card, but you do need to know you want to do it ahead of time, or it will just look weird and won't have the desired affect.

Felipe, i thought you might also be interested in this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=begin&Number=1068090&Forum =,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=10 54830&Search=true&where=&Name=3162&daterange=&newe rval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Po st1068090) thread from a few days ago.

--dan

[LetsRock]

DOn't get too caught up in "general" tells or tells in general for that matter.

Reliable tells, will only gain you a little extra edge and it generally takes quite a bit of observation of a single player for a tell to become reliable.

And a tell for one person will not be a tell for another player. You have to develop your reads on EACH player.

Yes, there are some general tells that clueless players will share and you can read all about those in Caro's Book of Tells. You'll learn just how little edge depending on tells will get you in that book as well.

[CaptObvious]

I think the eyes are very important when it comes to tells. You can do a lot of things to try to throw people off. Strong Means Weak, Weak Means Strong, or sometimes Strong Means Strong, Weak Means Weak. But, generally, I -always- watch peoples eyes when they look at their cards. The most reliable tell I've seen is if after they look at their whole cards, for a split second they glance at their chips. Because it's generally quick enough where it wasn't 'meant' for other people to be seen, and it's more of a subconscious reaction or thought to how much should be bet relative to the strength of your hand.
Their's been a few times I've seen this playing at our home games and folded decent hands and lower pocket pairs UTG, because I knew a bet was coming and or a raise/re-raise; and I was right. This obviously depends on the game type.
After that it's obviously betting patterns, and instincts. Generally speaking does their actions indicate they might want a caller, or have they at all deterred you from calling. That's the beauty of this game because it all boils down to Math, and Instinct (or you could even say a judgement call.) Gotta love it. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Jim C]

Yeah, you are right CaptOb.

Eyes say enormous amounts.

Here are a few I found.

1. (most important) Watch players while they are looking at their hole cards, and not at yours until its your turn to act. If you are busy looking at your cards, you will miss their immediate reactions.

2. Watch their eyes as they hit the flop. You can see the flop later. You won't be able to see their reaction later.

3. When 2 suited cards hit the floor, and they pick up cards to look again, they have 1 card of that suit. If they had 2, they would remember, and not need to check.

4. The eyes and looking at chipstacks is a big thing.

5. People lie less with their eyes. Either they will do one thing or another consistently. Look for what they do, and remember it.

6. (a non eye tell) Watch their chest/hands/breathing. When they bluff, ppl tend to hold their breath, or conciously breathe loudly.

7. Watch for deliberate and obvious tells. These are tells that they want you to see!!! Note which are deliberate, and which ones are not.

8. Speed of response. (huge tell)

9. Look at other ppl if they are to act after you.. ppl with good cards look interested in whats going on... PPL with crap look disinterested.

10. There are obviously heaps more tells I know, but here are a few that I use. Hope it helps. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[jimymat]

We got 4 big screen tv's where I play. One of the tells I found for a person that wants to check raise is they check very fast as if the flop totally missed them and there is no need to think about it. The fast checked followed up with a long stare at the tv to check the local score. The looking at the tv is classic weak means strong. The first time it happened I bet into him and he raised. Made my mental note so the next time it happened I was aware of what was gonna happen. He didnt let me down. To take it a step further I invested a little to see if the guy was an actor or mixed up his game. Couple weeks later, same deal, same guy checks fast looks away at tv. I bet out with $20,he starts to reach for chips then catches himself and puts his hand back to original spot. When action came to him he raised. I folded and know no this guy dony mix his game up that muck and I now have a pretty good tell. Maybe a check raise tell thats reliable. Good luck.

[CaptObvious]

Jimmy-

Definitely a good point, too. Weak typically does mean strong; but, that also depends on the player in general. There are some intelligent players that I play with and they know this. Often they (or I will) will do the opposite. Weak Means Weak, Strong Means Strong just to mix it up a bit. Generally, though the big thing to keep in mind obviously is the general 'feeling' so to speak. Does this person at all want you to call or even remotely discouraging your bet?

Good comment about the breath thing. Another one, too is that of a small sigh. Sometimes its just noticable. Usually when the flop, turn, or river comes. It's obviously just a matter of taking into account everything thats happened. As Phil Helmuth calls it "Situational Analysis."