two kinds of affiliates

[BIGRED]

There seems to be two kinds of affiliates. One kind is able to track each player under a separate tracker. The other kind is not able to track and asks each of his players to keep track and at the end of the month uses an honor system to divide up the rake pie.

So how does the first kind of affiliate able to keep his players separated? The way I understand they do this is by getting a different signup code from the site for every new player he gets. But doesn't this then announce to the site that he might be giving out kickbacks? Why else would you want to keep each player separated, other than for the adminitrative purpose of doing rake kcikbacks, which the sites prohibit?

[sprmario]

I'm not 100% sure but I think empire doesn't issue individual trackers but party does. I'm sure an affiliate will be able to answer for certain.

[stoxtrader]

I am able to track exactly on intertops. I am not able to on empire. I do not do party.

[Ponks]

I have 50+ trackers in use on empire and I can get more anytime I want.

Ponks

[BIGRED]

[ QUOTE ]
I have 50+ trackers in use on empire and I can get more anytime I want.

Ponks

[/ QUOTE ]
How are you able to do this without the site getting suspicious that you are a rake back affiliate? Or is this a trade secret that you would not reveal?

[KaBoom]

They have to know but don't really care. It is the same cost for them. Or maybe when you sign up enough players you get special treatment. Who knows.

My affiliate at Empire doesn't have separate trackers. Its always a guessing game on the 1st of the month of how much he should pay me. This month he hasn't paid anything so it looks like he's guessing what day is it! /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[MicroBob]

I think they "discourage" rake-back but they don't actively go after you.
You may also note that they "discourage" you from signing-up at the other skins after you are already signed-up at party....but they certainly don't go out of their way to stop it. Afterall, they KNOW that I have accts on other skins....I use the same e-mail and neteller and ISP for all of them and it even prevents me from playing at the same table with myself via another skin.
They have these pre-caution thingees in place to keep out simple-minded bonus-chasers....but if you 'really' want to do it they don't care too much and won't stop you.

Anyway, back to rake-back:
I think you are allowed to give occasional 'rewards' for your more valued players. So the excuse for seperate trackers can be a combination of 'wanting to see which of your promotions are most effective' and 'wanting to reward your most active customers'.

If they ever get more active about trying to nail raker-backers I suspect they will first look at those with a zillion individual trackers.
The fact that they don't bother even taking this simple step seems a sign of rake-back tolerance imo....but they are always reserving the right to yank the rake-back rug out from under you at any time if they deem it not in their company's best interest any lnoger.

But, for them, the bottom-line is that these affiliates are bringing in more and more customers. They just don't want rake-back to be any more frequent than it already is.

Many typical fish who don't frequent various poker-forums have no idea about rake-back....and likely have no idea that the banner they clicked on some random page to sign-up for party is actually helping some dude in the middle of nowhere make money for doing virtually nothing month after month after month.

I suspect that the percentage of party and skin players receiving a rake-back deal is smaller than we might think.

[submariner]

I was told by my affiliate that Party gives separate trackers and he knows what each player has in rake; Empire does not give separate trackers, so he can not know what an individual player got in rake, and you have to give Pokertracker or some similar stat of rake.

He told me all this before I signed up and hadn't decided on a site yet. He was accurate about everything else he told me, and has always paid my Party rakeback with no problem. So I don't see why he would have any reason to lie
about Empire being that way.

There may be more details or circumstances that I'm not aware of, but that seems to be the way it works effectively for me the player.

[TxSteve]

Empire (tradal) refuses to give me individual trackers saying it's against their policy.

I wish I could get them to give some to me...but they refuse.

[submariner]

[ QUOTE ]
.and likely have no idea that the banner they clicked on some random page to sign-up for party is actually helping some dude in the middle of nowhere make money for doing virtually nothing month after month after month.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think most affiliates go for the percent of rake option? I would think most newplayers don't end up playing for long enough term or high enough limits to make that better than the one-time payment.

[TrickyTree]

For me its just a personal thing but i would never sign up under anyone who couldnt track my play individually. It throws up the possibility of arguments from both sides about amounts owed, where as individual trackers leave no room for this. Its OK if its between friends but when you dont know the person concerned the amounts of money people are dealing in mean a definate requirement for trackers. Fortunately my Eurobet affiliate does use individual trackers for players and will tell me at any time how much i have paid in rake. Where money is concerned there is always room for dishonestly. Trackers shut this option down perfectly.

[KaBoom]

I agree that the majority don't get rake back or know they could but it is getting more and more popular. For a losing or break even player it is a lot of money they could get back. This topic is discussed on all forums every day and if one fish signs up for it he'll tell all his friends too. Now it looks like everyone is changing sites to get an even better deal with someone else. I wonder what is "todays best offer?"

[MicroBob]

I have no idea what the affiliates do but it would HAVE to be in their best-interest to go for the percentage I would think.

You get $50 or whatever per new sign-up the other way...
10 players = $500

Lets say you did rake-back for these same 10 players and 9 of them dropped off quickly.
9 players at $10 of rake-back each that you make = $90
Plus, 1 player who gets all-kinds-a-wacky on the 5/10 and 15/30 games, etc etc..... = $200/mth (or more).


For just the 1 out of 10 players who will actually play fairly regularly (regardless of whether they win or lose) I think it is more than worth it.

Whether many of the affiliates are smart enough to figure that out I don't know. It's painfully obvious to me....but, then again, so is not blaming the cards or your opponents when you lose or playing beyond one's bankroll, etc etc.

[Matt24]

I get mine for Empire from Tradal no problem, usually within a couple hours I can get a new batch.

[TxSteve]

Hmm

That's wierd Matt.

My Tradal contact has told me "no" twice...

Wonder what's going on?

[MicroBob]

Inconsistent policies at an online-poker site?!?!

Surely you gest!!

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

My affiliate tracks my play individually at Empire.

[BIGRED]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm

That's wierd Matt.

My Tradal contact has told me "no" twice...

Wonder what's going on?

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you play on Empire? I think your level of play also figures into how much slack they give you.

[Panace50]

i know one player who has 54 signups on a CPA, and his players are generating 4000 per month in gross rake. He received about $4200 for those players and will not get another dime from them, but every month that goes by, a % of rake back would get up to $1200 for those players. He thought these would be players who didn't generate much rake. I am sure the dollar volume would decrease over time, but it doesn't take long at $1000 per month to see that on average, the percentage back is best.

[GrannyMae]

i know one player who has 54 signups on a CPA, and his players are generating 4000 per month in gross rake.

if they signed up under CPA, then how in the world would he know what they are generating in gross rake? is this person guessing?

[Ponks]

Yah same here.

When I signed up my affiliate manager guy said if I ever need more codes just email him and now I usually get 4-5 every week or two from him.

Ponks

[Panace50]

no, the tradal software shows the accumulated rake on our trackers. I have heard that some trackers dont get that information on CPA's, but since most of ours are %, we have seen the results on our cpa trackers too.

[Lori]

no, the tradal software shows the accumulated rake on our trackers

Do you pay them as frequently as you pay your props?

Lori