No Limit Newbee

I have recently started playing in a very low blind no limit hold'em game. I have been playing limit games for some time. At the risk of sounding dumb, are there any major changes that affect starting hands and position? What are big pairs and big suited connecters worth. The max buy in at this game is $50. any other starting hand advice? Thank you all for any input.


Gary

1. It's not the size of your stack, it's how you use it. Some guys think all they have to do is push real hard with a big stack and the rest will come. There's a lot more to it than that. Technique is important, even when you are very big. A small stack is a disadvantage, no matter how you spin it. You know this because everyone with a small stack really wants to be bigger. But it can be used effectively. You are limited in what you can do, but there are guys who can get in there with a small stack and work some magic.


2. Position is very important. You just can't feel comfortable with a hand in certain positions. The farther back you go, the more you like the hand. Most good players love to play it from behind and they avoid the front altogether, unless they're holding the nuts. Holding the nuts in front can bring up some interesting situations which I probably shouldn't get into right here.


That should help for now.


natedogg

I am not sure I understand the value of cards in no-limit. What is a 4-flush on the flop worth, what is the value of top pair with an ace-kicker. With a max buy-in of $50 and .25/.50 blinds, should one see the flop unraised with just about any pair or suited connecters? Any advice on the value of starting cards and draws on the flop would be helpful. Thank you.


Gary Walker


PS I have ordered Super/System (finally), as I hear that will give valuable strategy on the game.

I was having a little fun with the answer above. In answer to your questions...


At the risk of sounding dumb, are there any major changes that

affect starting hands and position?


Don't worry about sounding dumb. Anyone who laughs at you or berates you for being a "fish" when you ask a question is just a jackass. There are always a few posters on these forums who enjoy putting others down (although RGP is the place to go if you really enjoy punishment). Ignore them.


Yes, your starting hands and your position are radically changed in no limit.


What are big pairs and big suited connecters worth?


This question gives away your newbie status. /images/smile.gif The cards themselves aren't worth anything without considering your opponents, your position, the stack sizes, and the recent action. The same is true in limit hold'em too, though. The pot size, number of players, position, and recent action will all help you determine the value of 87s in the cutoff.


Back to big pairs in no limit. Big pairs are worth a LOT before the flop, but probably not worth your whole stack (if it's big) unless you have AA or KK. Also, your position is crucial. Be more inclined to get all-in with KK when you are in early position and less inclined when you are in late position. On the other hand, a hand like AA or KK can become worthless fairly quickly if you see a flop with a lot of chips in front of you still. You have to proceed carefully on the flop, and acting last is nice.


Suited connectors are worth playing if you come in cheap and in back. You want to be able to get free cards and pick up the pot with nothing, and bluff with draws, and it's hard to do that from in front.


any other starting hand advice?


Play VERY VERY tight in the blinds. Play VERY VERY tight in early position and play pretty loose on the button. In no limit hold'em, the vast majority of your profits come in those situations where you act last on the flop. Period.


What is a 4-flush on the flop worth, what is the value of top pair with an ace-kicker?


All dependent upon stack sizes, and also what you know about your opponent. In limit hold'em, a four flush or top-pair ace kicker is a hand you will generally push very hard, at least until the turn. In no limit, you might get all-in with top-pair ace kicker and you might fold to a small bet. For instance, catching a ten with A-10 is nothing to get excited about if you are acting first and the stacks are big, ESPECIALLY in a raised pot.


The value of your hand, whether it's a draw (as in the four flush) or a made hand (as in the top pair) is dependent upon several things. 1. The stack sizes, which is another way of saying implied/reverse implied odds. 2. Your opponents. A super conservative, tight, unimaginative old man bets into you after you raised with Ajs and the flop is TJx. Fold. (this is an actual situation I played, I folded, and I got shown TJ). 3. The recent action. This is very important. Things change from minute to minute and depending on what has been happening, you will need to change the way you play a given hand. Generally, if you've been playing fast, be willing to push a good but not great hand because your opponents will probably call you down. Also, don't bluff for a while because they think you've been doing it all along.


With a max buy-in of $50 and .25/.50 blinds, should one see the flop unraised with just about any pair or suited connecters?


Yes. Especially the pairs. I still dump the suited connectors from early position because it's too easy to flop a draw and get carried away.


Any advice on the value of starting cards and draws on the flop would be helpful.


Draws:

What I'm about to tell you is very controversial and most experts disagree with me. Most no limit players LOVE to push a flush draw hard, especially if they think their ace is live. This is such a common move that I don't believe you ever need to do it yourself. Unless you are playing with people who know you really really well, the rest of the no limit player pool has already trained everybody to call down more loosely on a two-tone flop. The problem with this move is that the chance of winning right there is now very very low, so low that it makes the all-in move a losing play, since you will be called and have your money in as a 2-1 dog the vast majority of the time.


In addition, when you are against players who know you that well, you really don't need to make all-in moves on a draw very often at all to keep them guessing. If you made the all-in flushdraw move once a month, that would probably be enough to entice a call when you flop big on a two-tone flop.


Remember to take what I say and think about it for yourself, because lots of players will totally disagree with me on that one


Starting hands: Kickers are crucial. In no limit, an ace is a good kicker, a king is a questionable kicker, and a queen or lower means you're hoping your opponents doesn't have the top pair he's representing. You should play very tight from up front. If the game is perfect (passive preflop but lots of paying off after the flop - like UltimateBet) you can limp from any position with any pair. In fact, you can raise.


One key hand that is good for illustrating the big differences between limit and no limit hold'em is AK. In no-limit, AK is just not worth very much in early position. It's worth a lot more on the button. The change in value for this hand from UTG to the button is a much bigger drop-off than when you have AK in a limit game.


I have ordered Super/System (finally), as I hear that will give valuable strategy on the game.


It's good. But you should be careful. Some of the advice can get you into a lot of trouble if you're not an expert.


natedogg

I didn't know you were funny too...


mikeb

I can't claim to know as much as Natedogg but I thought I'd add four observations. I started of losing on Ultimate bet, but am now winning thanks to:


1. On Ultimate bet too many of the players think that they are still playing limit Hold'em. So they'll bet 50c on the flop and you can rest assured that you'll be able to draw cheaply. Nice drawing hands go up in value.


2. You may not need to go all-in to keep them guessing. But you should go all in as a value bet - they'll call! Its fabulous they'll call if you just stick all your chips in (with no raising before you) before the flop with aces - its happened to me. Remember Slim's advice - "It feels better in!"


3. Learn about stack sizes and observe them. Join me in nagging Natedogg to write a book (write it Nate - write it!)


4. They don't bluff enough. Don't try a tricky call.


Toffeeman


PS Natedogg. Do you play Ultimate bet under the name "Natedogg" or another nickname?