My impression of Middle Limit Holdem Poker by Ciaffone and Brier

[TimM]

(13) A $20-$40 game. You are in middle position with the A/images/graemlins/spade.gif-A/images/graemlins/club.gif. You open with a raise and only the two blinds call. There is $120 in the pot and three players. The flop is: 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif-8/images/graemlins/heart.gif-5/images/graemlins/club.gif, giving you just an overpair. The small blind bets and the big blind calls. What do you do?

Answer: Fold. You could be up against two pair, or set in which case you have only two outs, or drawing nearly dead to a made straight. Even if you hit an ace on the turn you might lose to a redraw on the river. Cut your losses now since you are probably already behind to a bettor and a caller.

Ok this is a bit of an exaggeration, but so many of the book's suggested plays run totally opposite of the way I play. There are a few good things in there, and perhaps it will help me tone down some of the aggression at times when I overdo it. But it is really tough to read when half the problems have actions that I would never make in the lead up to the quiz question. (Limping with hands in situations where I would only raise or fold, cold-calling hands I would only three bet or fold, calling on the flop when I would raise, etc.)

[Rudbaeck]

Yeah, I got the same impression. But it's good to get a non-2+2 impression now and again.

[helpmeout]

The book is a bit weak tight but it helps you read the play and look for potentially dangerous situations.

Definately a good book to read and will help tighten people up after SSH.

Remember these are ML games not your average party chimps.

[TimM]

I just started Party 10/20 full after two months of 5/10. SSH doesn't apply much in either of those games, since they are less than 3 to the flop on average. But this book (MLH) doesn't apply much either. Many players still cold-call too many raises and the weak players, while fewer in number, are the ones you are always seeing the flop with, usually either heads up or three way.

[Michael Davis]

There are real problems here. Look at this hand. Instead of suggesting all the ways you could be losing, perhaps the authors should point out that you are ahead here at least 75% of the time.

-Michael

[dragon14]

Ciaffone has supported himself for the last 25 years or so from playing poker and writing about it. Since he has been a winning player at the middle limits for years I would certainly think his advice is valuable.

If someone is significantly better at hold em than Ciaffone then I would imagine that they're already quite successful and don't need his advice. However, I've found his book to be very helpful towards tightening my play and hand-reading.

I think his tight approach is the ideal way to start out at holdem. Once one has mastered his method of playing and has success with it, then I feel a player can think about loosening up and applying their own theories to the game.

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
There are real problems here. Look at this hand. Instead of suggesting all the ways you could be losing, perhaps the authors should point out that you are ahead here at least 75% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I made up that hand as a joke. When I said "impression", i meant in the comedic sense. I should have made that more clear.

[Michael Davis]

Wow, I'm glad you told me that. I was trying to rack my brain to remember that hand and couldn't figure out why it didn't stick out in my mind or why it wasn't ripped apart on 2+2.

-Michael

[TimM]

The fact that you didn't recognize immediately that it was a joke supports my point. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[gergery]

LOL, that’s pretty funny that you made that hand up. But I have to say my initial reaction was “Tell me what page that’s on cause I’ve practically memorized the book and don’t think that sounds right”.

I think that book is enormously helpful. After Theory of Poker, its been the single book that improved my game the most. And I play only NL.

It’s the only book that has 400 examples of different situations and the things you should be thinking about and thinking thru in each of them. The key is not to rely on its advice like a cooking recipe to follow blindly, but rather Ciaffone illustrates which are the most crucial of the many potentially relevant factors to consider in a given situation. It’s up to you to adjust from that to your particular game. And the typical PartyPoker game is nothing like his middlelimit games.

--Greg

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Greg:

You wrote:

[ QUOTE ]
And I play only NL.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's hitting the nail on the head. Part of my criticism of Middle Limit Hold 'em is that it presents no limit advice and says it's applicable for limit.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Michael Davis]

"The fact that you didn't recognize immediately that it was a joke supports my point."

If I were not a complete moron, you would be right.

-Michael

[DonkeyKong]

Got it in mail today and started reading... So far, the book in a nutshell: if the flop isn't absolutely texture-free, you are beat... doesn't matter what you have. if by some chance you are ahead, there are too many re-draws to continue = fold.