Quick Pre-flop ?s

Playing 9 handed NL with two equal blinds. Most everyone has between 80 and 100 times the blinds, some a bit less. I am new to full tabled live NL so am curious how people analyze these pre-flop situations:


1. One early limper, cut-off limps, SB wraps. You are in the BB with AA. Check? Raise? How much? Most importantly, what factors do you consider?


2. Again, one early limper, button limps, you have KK in SB. Check? Raise? How much? Again, what factors do you consider?


Thanks.


KJS

1. One early limper, cut-off limps, SB wraps. You are in the BB with AA. Check? Raise? How much? Most importantly, what factors do you consider?


The most important factor in this situation is stack size. The second most important factor is how your opponents will play. In general, I don't like checking here, ever. If stack sizes are huge, then perhaps. If I'm short-stacked, this is an all-in situation for sure. With a medium stack (like the ones you described), this situation usually calls for a raise big enough to push out weak hands, but small enough to get strong hands to play back at you, or at least call. $100 sounds right. Some people will call $100 with AK and the like. This is what you want.


Again, one early limper, button limps, you have KK in SB. Check? Raise? How much? Again, what factors do you consider?


Same factors of course. One thing to realize is that you should be more willing to push this hand aggressively preflop since you are done with this hand if an ace comes on the flop given that you are first to act.


natedogg

natedogg,


What blind size are you assuming in your answer to #1?


KJS

Whoops! Duh. Sorry.


I started thinking about the game in terms of the usual structure I play, 2-3-5. You said that everyone had 80 to 100 times the big blind which converts to stacks of 400 to 500. Forgot to mention that I had converted the numbers when I responded.


Anyway, if the other players have come in for 10, and it's to you, I'd make it about $100 with $400 left behind me. Same with the KK hand. With the AA hand, you are pot stuck. With the KK hand, if you see an ace on the flop, you can get out without too much cost. Without an ace on the flop, you're committed. If you get played back at preflop, even better. You move in and sit back to see what happens.


As an aside, I think that preflop decisions in no limit are much more complex and difficult than in limit. The limit experts like David Sklanskly have stated that in order to get better, you should focus on later streets. Pre-flop is not very interesting. I think they are right, when discussing limit hold'em.


For example, in limit hold'em, you're almost never going to fold QQ preflop, from any position. There are some rare instances, but the situation that calls for a QQ preflop fold in limit is so rare as to not be worth mentioning.


In no limit, you better be folding QQ preflop fairly easily, with no regrets.


I think one of the best ways to illuminate the difference between limit and no limit preflop game is to look at AKo in early and late positions in a limit vs. no limit game. AKo in the blinds will probably be folded quite often, or go all-in often, based on all kinds of factors, especially stack size.


In limit, you raise pretty much every time, regardless of position, stacks, pot size, action, opponents, you name it.


natedogg

1.

A, Raise.


B, With 4 blinds in the pot I would raise 8-10 blinds, hopping they might read me for a medium pair (8-10) and reraise with something like A-K or J-J. But maybe its more likely that someone will reraise if you raise less, so......it depends on your opponents I guess.


C, FIRST: Your position sucks, I would want no more than one opponent. I´ve argued before in a similar case that you should raise so much that a small pair don´t get implied odds from you.


SECOND: Your ability to fold when beaten is very important. I guess that´s why I like to move strong from this position. I have big trouble playing unimproved aces on the flop.... and when the action is heavy I seem to lose a lot of money.


2.

The same considerations apply.

Two differences: An ace kills you, raise more. On the other hand, kings is easier to lay down, witch means you can raise less.


I´m confused.........

natedogg,


Any thoughts of trapping? If someone does hold AK seems like you can win a bundle from them after the flop if they hit an A or K. Is there just too much value in any raise you make here? In the hand in question, I raised it up 8X the blind and everyone dropped. Not a big deal. A friend who's game I respect stated he would have checked it through and let someone catch up a bit. Is his approach just too dangerous with 3 other players and you betting 2nd? Seems to me you stand to win more when you jack it up pre-flop, get a caller and then win it post-flop. He seemed to think that you go for the big score in NL and that means let people play with you.


I agree on the KK hand but played it differently at the time. Just to try something different, I checked and so did the BB. did double up when the button hit two pair w/64 and me a K. Still, I wouldn't do it again. Winning the dead money here seems just fine with bad position and the Kings instead of Aces.


Live and learn.


KJS

The book says it's a mistake not to raise an early limper when you have AA. This is especially true if early limper is UTG. the reason being the limper could very well have a strong hand and play back at you. Nothing like getting raised when you have the nutz.


Also, some players like to raise from the blind with hands like AK, AQ if there are several limpers. If this is you then IMO a raise with AA, KK is mandatory.

And just what book is that??

Pot Limit and No Limit Poker by Rueben and Ciaffone.


KJS's situation is a bit different because he is in the blind.