Why no antes early in tournaments?

[maryfield48]

Or, why introduce antes later in tournaments?

What's the theory behind the change in structure?

[LetsRock]

Generally antes (and raising blinds) are done to generate action. It prevents the entire table from going on defense for hours or days on end.

Tournies are different than ring games in that there is an absolute "finish line".

[housenuts]

if you were gonna introduce antes in early stages of the tournament then everyone would be forced to call with almost any 2.
say the blinds are 10/20, and everyone antes only 5. (we'll say a 10 person table). so there's 80 in the pot right from the start, and you only have to call 20 to get in on the action so you're getting 4 to 1 on a call. that's probably why there's no antes in the early stages.

[TM1212]

[ QUOTE ]
if you were gonna introduce antes in early stages of the tournament then everyone would be forced to call with almost any 2.
say the blinds are 10/20, and everyone antes only 5. (we'll say a 10 person table). so there's 80 in the pot right from the start, and you only have to call 20 to get in on the action so you're getting 4 to 1 on a call. that's probably why there's no antes in the early stages.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everything said above (youd be correct to call with any hand if your getting 4 to 1 pre-flop) and that antes early in a tourtament, much like higher blinds, lower the level of skill invovled. This is why the WSOP is played with such long rounds, it lowers the amount of luck involved, because over such a long period everyone sees about the same quality of hands.

[maryfield48]

[ QUOTE ]
if you were gonna introduce antes in early stages of the tournament then everyone would be forced to call with almost any 2.
say the blinds are 10/20, and everyone antes only 5. (we'll say a 10 person table). so there's 80 in the pot right from the start, and you only have to call 20 to get in on the action so you're getting 4 to 1 on a call. that's probably why there's no antes in the early stages.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok that makes sense. Thanks for the replies guys.

[dana33]

[ QUOTE ]
Generally antes (and raising blinds) are done to generate action. It prevents the entire table from going on defense for hours or days on end.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure. But my question (which may differ from the original poster's question) is: why not just dispense with the antes and raise the blinds proportionately? E.g., if the blinds at a given round are 10000/5000 with a 1000 ante, why not drop the ante and have blinds of 15000/8000? It seems it would simplify the "bookkeeping" that the dealer has to do.

What do antes accomplish that you cannot accomplish with increased blinds?

[ceczar]

[ QUOTE ]
What do antes accomplish that you cannot accomplish with increased blinds?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you increase the blinds, you do not change the preflop odds people are getting to call the blinds. for a given level of blinds, adding antes increases the odds from the beginning, thereby encouraging more speculative hands to play.

[James Boston]

[ QUOTE ]
if you increase the blinds, you do not change the preflop odds people are getting to call the blinds. for a given level of blinds, adding antes increases the odds from the beginning, thereby encouraging more speculative hands to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't honestly know the answer to this question, but do you think it's really done in relation to pot odds? I would guess that they're absent in the early round because they would be too large in relation to stack size. However in later rounds, you could fold and only loosing the ante wouldn't be that big of a deal. At the same time, you're putting money into the pot every hand. I know that all still relates to pot odds, but from a tournament director's stand point it seems to be more of a psychological thing.