K7s in the SB, turn action.

[bisonbison]

I'm 8-tabling so I have no reads, but I thought this was a pretty basic situation that might help some of you.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Button folds.

Turn: (4 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
What's hero's action?

[Trix]

I think hero should consider checking the flop, since he often wont get many callers on that board, isn´t going to win it right there and will give his hand away when he checks the turn.

[DeathDonkey]

Check because you can't fold to a raise and you don't want to pay 2 bets to see a river. You don't have the best hand and an ace isn't folding, but might check it through.

-DeathDonkey

[illunious]

I voted check.

[ QUOTE ]
I think hero should consider checking the flop, since he often wont get many callers on that board

[/ QUOTE ]

At first I didn't like this, I bet the flop without a thought. At .5/1 it's not uncommon for Hero to have a value 3-bet opportunity on the flop with the nut flush draw.

But the more I consider the board (the type of board that will generally get less players seeing the turn), the more I agree with you. Would you check-call the possible 2 (bet and a raise) on the flop? Check-raise if the action goes bet, raise, call?

[dfscott]

I used to bet these flops and turns without a second thought, but after a long slide, I decided that maybe this was a bit too aggressive and have started checking these turns.

[dave44]

I check. It looks too likely they won't fold to your bet and too likely you might get raised on a slowplay.

[Bukem_]

Check, You want to see the river as cheap as possible.

You hand will not be good if a heart doesn't hit, so you don't care about a showdown. Plus they aren't both going away.

[illunious]

This is a topic I have previously considered posting on.

Anyone care to comment on the following four similar situations?

1. Hero checks the flop, UTG bets, MP1 raises, Hero...

2. Hero checks the flop, BB bets, UTG raises, MP1 calls, Hero...

3. Same turn situation, but instead the flop is K88 and Hero has an A3s...

4. Same turn situation, Hero turns a K...

[srt19170]

[ QUOTE ]

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Button folds.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm admitting ignorance here, but can someone explain this bet to me?

With a 4 card nut flush on the flop, you're about 2:1 to complete the flush and win the hand. Since you didn't pair up and you don't have overcards, you don't have a lot of high card value. That means you have a negative expectation on any money you bet at this point. You're going to lose this bet 2 out of 3 times.

There's also no value in driving people out of the hand; with no pair on the board and no straight flush possibility there is no hand that beats you. (It goes without saying that you're not going to drive out a pair with a single bet on the flop.) You want to keep people around in case your flush completes.

Or am I missing something?

-- Scott

[bisonbison]

In basic terms with any 4-flush on the flop, I'm 2:1 to complete the flush, so if I get 2 callers, I'm even money. If I get 3 or more callers, I make money on every dollar going in.

I didn't bet to drive people out. I bet to induce people to call and hoping that maybe someone in LP might raise.

Now, the paired board and the fact that I have no overcards means I'm not as likely to win the hand A) if the flush comes or B) if the flush doesn't come, so I really want more callers, which is why Trix suggests checking, but in a loose game like most .5/1 Party games, betting and raising your flush for value on the flop is almost always going to be correct.

[eric5148]

Forget the hand, I want to know why your playing .5/1. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[srt19170]

[ QUOTE ]
In basic terms with any 4-flush on the flop, I'm 2:1 to complete the flush, so if I get 2 callers, I'm even money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Duh, yeah, I had a brain lapse there and forgot about the odds. Never mind :-)

-- Scott

[srt19170]

[ QUOTE ]
Duh, yeah, I had a brain lapse there and forgot about the odds. Never mind :-)


[/ QUOTE ]

And I should probably add, "Thank you for not laughing." :-)

-- Scott

[bisonbison]

bonus clearing. I woke up feeling too burnt out for 3/6, but I wanted to clear my Party bonus and start my Empire bonus and have some time left over to investigate what this crypto bonus whoring is all about. So....

I 8-tabled .5/1 this morning for 2 and a half hours and got in nearly 1300 hands. I seem to have adjusted to 6 tables all right, but 8 tables is definitely on the downslope of my effectiveness.

By the way, I highly suggest you guys take a look at the crypto sites if you have some money to move around. I played 300 hands of 1/2 6-max at one of the sites to clear a $50 bonus and made an extra 100 for my 90 minutes of effort.

[bisonbison]

by the way, the answer is check. The odds are too high that your opponent has a better hand than K-high and you really don't want to get raised.

Besides, you will get a great emotional thrill when the flush comes on the river, you bet and get shown an 8 that he was waiting to raise on the turn.

[DeathDonkey]

Shhh...the Crypto sites are tough, really tough. Might want to stay away if you value your bankroll /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Seriously though the monthly bonuses are awesome and the $1/2 games play like Party $0.50/1, though they may not for long as it seems like all I see there are bonuswhores people and now maybe 2+2 low limit monsters.

That and getting to play online blackjack for extra bonuses is just a fun break from poker, and its +EV baby!

-DeathDonkey

[CrazyEyez]

I 8-tabled .5/1 this morning for 2 and a half hours

I got tired just reading this.
I hope you have two monitors.

[bisonbison]

I have two monitors, but I actually have to put all the games on the same monitor or I consistently miss my turn and time out. Wierd, eh?

The second monitor becomes the PT, gametime and interweb monitor.

[bisonbison]

Are there any good threads that explain how to take advantage of casino bonuses? Cause I don't want to learn a blackjack system, and I thought I remembered something about being able to set it up to play a system automatically, which, when you factored in the bonus money, gave you a win range of something similar to -50 to +300 bucks.

[eric5148]

That's creepy, I've been doing the exact same thing almost. I played .5/1 on Empire the day of The Infamous Bonus (I cleared it and cashed out, BTW /images/graemlins/wink.gif).

I've been playing Interpoker $100 NL and 1/2 limt. The NL games are MUCH softer than limit over there. Lots of drunken Irishmen who love to gamboool (I can say this because I'm Irish).

That place is bonus heaven, too. The problem is, I'm still waiting for them to snail mail me a friggin PIN number so I can cash out. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

Edited for political correctness.

[Jimbobobb]

There's a nice page about it on bonuswhores, but a lot of the sites no longer allow you to get bonus points when you set it up to run auto.

[DeathDonkey]

There are a ton of threads on the BW forums. Do a search for "guide" or something like that to find many thorough explanations of the Crypto system. There are many casinos online that have autoplay blackjack, but the Crypto sites do not. There is an optimal strategy chart at www.wizardofodds.com (http://www.wizardofodds.com) that I have copied and pasted on my desktop when playing blackjack to clear bonuses. I imagine I won't need to use it after a few more months of practice but its pretty handy.

I recently did the $2500 WR for Caribbean Sands $100 monthly blackjack bonus and it took me about 4 hours total and I had no idea what I was doing. I also made $20 besides the bonus (yay for me). That is all just min. betting ($3) until its cleared.

-DeathDonkey

[DeathDonkey]

You can autoplay BJ at Crypto sites? That's news to me if true.

[eric5148]

[ QUOTE ]
Are there any good threads that explain how to take advantage of casino bonuses? Cause I don't want to learn a blackjack system, and I thought I remembered something about being able to set it up to play a system automatically, which, when you factored in the bonus money, gave you a win range of something similar to -50 to +300 bucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read a lot of threads about online blackjack whoring. The conclusion I've come to is that everyone has such a different opinion about which bonuses are worth playing, which site is best, etc., that I'm just going to totally learn the game myself and make my own opinions. I've ordered Stanford Wong's and Edward Thorpe's books, and plan on learning basic strategy as well as counting and advanced strategy.

I might play BJ in live casinos, too, where you can count. I hope it turns out to be worth it.

P.S. - There's video poker, too, which can be +EV.

[ArturiusX]

video poker can make you about $3.15 an hour with the perfect strategy.

[bisonbison]

video poker can make you about $3.15 an hour with the perfect strategy.

So, more than 1-tabling .5/1?

[Cosimo]

Only if you can find a full-pay machine that isn't already taken. And nowadays, if the progressive is high enough. And until you hit a royal (on the order of 10,000 pulls) you're playing at -2% or more.

gah, my facts are so off it's insane. But I'm certain I'm in the right ballpark.

[AncientPC]

[ QUOTE ]
I have two monitors, but I actually have to put all the games on the same monitor or I consistently miss my turn and time out. Wierd, eh?

The second monitor becomes the PT, gametime and interweb monitor.

[/ QUOTE ]

So how do you get 8 tables on one monitor? Miniview?

[Trix]

[ QUOTE ]
but in a loose game like most .5/1 Party games, betting and raising your flush for value on the flop is almost always going to be correct.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, yeah, just wanted to point out that there was another option as I used to autobet with FDs and OESDs.

When I voted in the poll, there were 8 for check and none for bet, not it´s all messed up :P

[sthief09]

check

when your opponents call on an A-high flop, there's a very small chance that they have nothing and will fold the turn. on a 322 board, it would be more of a consideration against reasonable players since it's possible they're calling the flop with something like AT or KJ and will fold the turn if they don't pair up, and there's less of a chance that someone is waiting until the turn to pop you. also, a pocket pair will raise the flop, so you can narrow your opponents' possible hands down enough to make a semi-bluff profitable.

also, since this is at .50/1, most players are calling stations, and bluffing into 2 calling stations is not a good idea.

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]
also, a pocket pair will raise the flop, ...

also, since this is at .50/1, most players are calling stations...

[/ QUOTE ]

so you're saying that a calling station is going to raise this flop with a pocket pair?

[Trix]

did you read all of his post ?