Switching from NL to the dreaded limit

[TheTimeIsUp]

I have decided that I want to dip my feet in limit, since they way I see it, if I ever want to be a great player I will have to know how to play limit, as well as I do NL.

I am currently playing the 2/4 nl at party and doing very well. The only downside is that you can only go so far in NL, due to the limited amount of players playing NL rather than the mass number of players playing limit (ring games).

My question is, how do I convert from NL to limit. What strategies do I take with me, where should I start, what, if any, should I read? Basically, I am looking for any and all tips, because I know it can be rough starting out. Thanks a ton.

[Macdaddy Warsaw]

It's still Hold 'Em. Take your aggressiveness, your pot odds skills, and your hand selection.

Read Hold 'Em Poker for Advanced Players by Sklansky and Malmuth.

Everybody will tell you to read Small Stakes Hold 'Em by Miller too, but I haven't yet.

Just learn which hands you should be playing (which is going to be similar to NL, but it might be less tight or more tight, depending on how you play), and you should do fine.

[obex]

I would start with Sklansky and Malmuth's Hold 'EM poker for advanced players. It is all about limit. Very applicable to mid-level online games.

[burntazure]

Hi.

The limit games are very good at party/skins, especially low limit games. I will give you some basic recommendations.

1. Start out at .5/1 level. This will give you a chance to acclimate. Play ~10k hands at this level (or less if you acclimate quickly).

I started here & this limit is very easy to beat.

2. After you master this level go to 1/2 Short handed. This will help you focus on postflop play & improve yr skills when playing short handed. This game is very lucrative & some may argue it is easier than .5/1 level.


So as a basic program, play those two levels. You need to crush them pretty well. You want to have a win rate at least at ~3bb/100. And this is easily attainable; probably it will even be higher than that.

Now for the specifics.

1. The players are very bad; they are too loose preflop & they sometimes just turn into calling stations postflop. You routinely see family pots with TPTK losing to a long shot hand.

2. To combat this, pay attention to yr table position. Know what hands you can play in which positions; know all yr odds for drawing hands, etc., and play w/ pot odds/implied odds.

3. Hands like Axs, J10s, 910s, go up in value. Also, medium pocket pairs can often limp preflop and try for the set to make a killing.

4. You must fold alot preflop, play tight, and the aim is to win a few giant pots, rather than many small pots.


And, after you master that, you can move up to 2/4,3/6,5/10... I would offer more advice, but I am moving to 2/4 in a few weeks myself so I am not qualified to offer advice at those limits.


Read the small stakes holdem book (Ed Miller), Winning low limit holdem by jones, and HEPFAP (slkansky/malmuth).

The Miller method of poker playing is more aggressive than the jones school and personally I can say it appears to be more effective (at least on party/skins). This is also the consensus of other posters at 2+2 as well.

Another good place to post/analyze hands is the microlimit/small stakes forums. But if you seek advice, you must critically analyze it since sometimes it may be flawed; there are often more than one viewpoint,etc.,etc.

And just practice. I strongly believe if you were successfully playing NL, limit will be easier.

Oh yeah one last thing, don't fold on the river to just one more bet, unless you have to do so. Usually the fish don't have much since they are so loose preflop. good luck & practice.

adios.

[Tillerman]

Mkae sure your broll is about 250 big bets,swings are cruel in limit,also it is hard to move both up and down in limits you need to adjust properly


tilly

[Malarky]

Tilting in limit isn't nearly as bqd as in NL, I've found.

[Seether]

Move up to 3/6 asap or you will pull your hair out from the massive amounts of suck outs in the microlimits.

[fsuplayer]

Move up to 3/6 asap or you will pull your hair out from the massive amounts of suck outs in the microlimits.

i would recommend the 30/60 at party

[fsuplayer]

dont read hold em for advanced players.

you are new to limit, and that book is for much tigher higher limit games with sane opposition, not the type you will find at the party games

buy miller's book (SSHE) and read it a couple of times, thats all you need to beat the games for a bunch. if and when you get above 10/20, then maybe, HEFAP might be useful.

good luck

fsuplayer

btw there are lots of great posts about players new to limit in the SH/HU forums. of course its geared toward SH play, but i would recommend starting there anyways. the games are much more fun to play. try the 1/2 6 max to get your feet wet, then you can play the 5/10 6 msx with the BR you have from the NL games.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
Mkae sure your broll is about 250 big bets,swings are cruel in limit,also it is hard to move both up and down in limits you need to adjust properly


tilly

[/ QUOTE ]


250 is not even close to enough for online poker. You need 400-600 for Party 2/4 and up

[sthief09]

HPFAP is extremely useful as far as specific tactics go. just because it's geared toward tougher games doesn't mean you can't apply it to low limit games.

[Freudian]

A massive amount of suckouts only means people play hands they shouldn't play, so it is good for you. It may be annoying if it happens too often in a session but I doubt you will find any kind of hold'em situation more profitabele than one where there are a lot of potential suckouts against you.

[BugSplatt]

How long have you been playing NL?

When I started out, it was limit holdem at the casino, and when I first got into holdem on the net I played limit for about two years. In January, 03 I switched to NL and played that almost exclusively for about twenty months. I saw plenty of suck-outs in NL Holdem also, (people getting 1-1 odds on a flush draw and calling all-in bets in heads-up situations, for example) so, unless you were playing in extremely tight NL games, I would think you would be mentally prepared for anything that may happen to you at the limit tables.

As far as starting out at the .50/1.00 game, I am not so sure about that advice. I think the money you play for has to mean something, because I think it is difficult to play optimally when the wins don’t excite you and the losses don’t hurt you.

I ventured back into limit a few weeks ago and it was an easy transition for me, perhaps because I played it for some time before moving into NL. My bankroll had basically flat-lined playing NL, and that is why I decided to make the move back into limit.

I think John Feeney, in his book “Inside the Poker Mind,” offers some great advice and it is written primarily for limit players.

Both NL and limit offer up interesting situations, but some people who have been playing NL for any amount of time can often forget about correct pot odds when it is just one bet to see the next card. Keep that in mind.

By the way, no shortage of NL games at PokerStars.

Bug

[fsuplayer]

HPFAP is extremely useful as far as specific tactics go. just because it's geared toward tougher games doesn't mean you can't apply it to low limit games.

i agree completely. but you have someone who is a solid NL player, switching to limit, HEFAP is not the first book he should be reading. i should have stated that originally. while HEFAP is applicable to smaller stake, SSHE is made for it and the type of opponents he will be playing against.

I have read both since my switch to limit 2 months ago and SSHE helpedmuch more. i now plan to reread HEFAP to pick up some details and "special tactics".

fsuplayer

[sthief09]

the miscellaneous topics section is great

also, when I first got it about a year ago, and there was no SSH and I didn't know about this place, I thought their hand rankings were off. I couldn't believe that ATo was group 7. then, I read it again over the summer and aside from overvaluing suited connectors and undervaluing pocket pairs, I thought they were dead on.

but yeah, you're right. SSH is a better place to start. HPFAP is more useful if you understand the game.