A Public Thank You

[Solitare]

I would like to personally thank all $10-1 SnG players who, when they are heads-up against me, will only complete in the SB with good hands rather than raising. I greatly appreciate the infinite odds you give me to bust you with a garbage hand I would have otherwise folded. My friend Mr. ROI also thanks you.

Of course this doesn't apply to most of the people who read this forum, but I thought it needed to be said. Out loud.

A lesser thanks goes to those that only raise to 2BB from the SB when heads-up, allowing me to play some good but not great hands with the same intention to bust you.

[Irieguy]

I'm not sure your ROI is as thankful as you think. If your standard play is to check preflop, or call a min. raise from the BB when the SB makes these weak plays, you are playing too passively.

While it's true that you are getting infinite pot odds when the SB completes and you check (which is one component of what makes the SB play so bad), the SB still has quite a bit of equity in the hand, especially if he has any post flop skills at all. And by checking, you are forfeiting tremendous folding equity.

When opponents try to complete against me heads-up, they don't get off that easy. There will be at least one more decision to be made preflop, and playing after the flop won't be any picnic for them either.

The downside of that approach is that it's very easy to bust me... all you have to do is wake up with a monster in the SB.

Irieguy

[PrayingMantis]

Very good points, irieguy. Solitare, if SB is checking to you HU many times, it means that you LET them do that, which is a leak by itself. SB should not feel comfortable to limp. Notice that if he limps and you check behind - BOTH of you get to see a cheap flop, not only you (and if you consider your stacks before posting, then you are both actually paying the same to see the flop).

[tubbyspencer]

[ QUOTE ]
Very good points, irieguy. Solitare, if SB is checking to you HU many times, it means that you LET them do that, which is a leak by itself. SB should not feel comfortable to limp. Notice that if he limps and you check behind - BOTH of you get to see a cheap flop, not only you (and if you consider your stacks before posting, then you are both actually paying the same to see the flop).

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmmmmmm. So Solitaire should re-raise with garbage out of position. Once again, Mantis, in your never ending quest to show other people how stupid they are, you MISS THE POINT.

Solitaire said garbage.

[parappa]

[ QUOTE ]
The downside of that approach is that it's very easy to bust me... all you have to do is wake up with a monster in the SB.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying that this is a large +EV play for you in spite of the fact that you must get busted fairly frequently via very aggressive play here?

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmmmmmmm. So Solitaire should re-raise with garbage out of position. Once again, Mantis, in your never ending quest to show other people how stupid they are, you MISS THE POINT.

Solitaire said garbage.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, have I got me a hater now, or what? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I have replied to solitare's posts before, trying to help, and I did it once again. If you think that I suggest he's "stupid", well, that' very sad. I have all the respect for him, and know *for sure* that he's looking for comments and advice. If you think that any criticism on this board implies that the OP is "stupid", you still have a lot to learn.

About your post - did you ever have a chance to play HU, at the end of an SNG? and actually win it? If you let SB limp in with a lot of hands, you have a big leak in your game. Sure you want to raise him with anything, many times, if he limps too much from SB (mind you: if he's limping too much, he is on garbage as well). And it's not a "re-raise", as you write, but a simple raise.

Aggression is the key of winning HU. The very first thing you need to know about it.

[tubbyspencer]

[ QUOTE ]


About your post - did you ever have a chance to play HU, at the end of an SNG? and actually win it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhhhhh, is this your way of showing that your posts aren't condescending? Lol.

[Bremen]

My favorite are the people who will fold repeatedly to all-ins while they wait for a good hand to call with. Needless to say they never find enough good hands to call with and will eventually lose on of the confrontations. I know this isn't an optimal HU strat (although with such high blinds I don't believe its that bad).

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
My favorite are the people who will fold repeatedly to all-ins while they wait for a good hand to call with. Needless to say they never find enough good hands to call with and will eventually lose on of the confrontations. I know this isn't an optimal HU strat (although with such high blinds I don't believe its that bad).

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you know they aren't folding J4o and 72s?

[Irieguy]

No, I was being sarcastic (personality fault).

My point is that calling-caliber hands are much less common than limping-caliber hands. So if the SB completes, I will raise and he will be forced with a decision. Then, even if he makes the correct decision, he is still forced to contend with me after the flop when I have position.

One way to counter this type of aggressive HU play would be to trap the BB with a big hand. The problem is that it's hard to find a big hand. That's why correct heads-up play dictates aggression from the BB when the SB tries to limp. The other (correct) way to counter an aggressive BB is to not complete from the SB in the first place.

And to address tubby's comment from earlier in the thread... yes, you should raise with garbage.

Limping from the SB is a bad play against good players because you will get smoked. But against Solitaire's approach, it's probably +EV to complete since he won't raise unless he has values.

The bottom line is that an opponent's mistake is only a mistake if you exploit it. There are certain types of players that I could beat by playing every single hand. There are also certain types of players that I cannot beat at all. But the player who will fare the worst of all is a passive HU opponent.

Irieguy

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you know they aren't folding J4o and 72s?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if they are folding it when you hold 64o and 32o, respectively, they are making huge mistakes... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously though, you don't have to be a complete maniac, but against certain opponents, it is definitely +EV, and probably not very far from optimal play, simply to raise with anything, in certain circumstances.

[Solitare]

Who said I never raise perpetually limping SBs? Or that the only time I would do it is with AA? Not me.

What a rough crowd.

However, if I have a stack of T2000 heads up with the blinds at T300 where every raise is an all-in situation for your tournament life, you will not see me raising a SB limper with garbarge that often. I will be glad to see as many free flops as possible.

However, when I have T4000 and the blinds are at T100, I will raise a SB limper almost every time.

Let's see, did I not make my examples specific enough? Any chance for people to draw mistaken conclusions. Rats, there is potential for misunderstanding all over the place. Oh well, might as well hit the continue button and go have breakfast.