PLO Hand

The blinds are 1, 2, and 4. I am in the $4 blind with about $370 in front of me. Everyone folds to the button, who raises to $20. He is a loose/aggressive/tricky player with about $700 in front of him. Both blinds call, and I call with T T Q 7 with the Q and 7 suited. I think that this was probably a bad call pre-flop, but that is not the point of this story. The flop comes T 6 7. Both blinds check to me, I bet $75, the button raises me the rest of my money, which is about $275 more. The blinds fold and it is up to me. Should I call or fold?

your description of the player means we can not really put him on a hand--you have so many of the flop cards it is doubtfull he has any of that, so if he has a made hand I guess it would be the straight.


pot odds are not good, thus your decision must be based upon the question of if this a bluff or not...tough spot...if you decide to call, at least you are not dead.

now you see why you dont play those kind of hands preflop especially for a raise.

with that flop it real likely someone could have a straight so you should have taken the free card and folded on 4th if someone bets into you and you dont fill.

since you bet the 75 and got raised about triple and all in you were getting almost two to one to fill. answer your own question here. if you cant you have no business in the game. think about how you could have played the hand and do that next time. good luck.

Your maths is a bit wrong; button raised to 20, 3 callers = 80 before the flop, and you have 350 left. On the flop you bet 75, leaving you 275, button calls 75 = only 230 in the pot so he can't have set you in like that.


Anyway, it doesn't matter all that much. Let's say the pot was exactly 275 and he bet exactly 275 and you had exactly 275, to make it easy. That means you're getting 2 to 1 to fill up or make quads, which is exactly what the true odds would be IF you didn't have a 7 in your hand, and IF the button did not have any cards pairing the board in his hand.


If you were mortally sure that the button would only raise you all in with a straight (remember 2 players left to act after he did) then you would have to fold because your price is not quite right just allowing for the 7 in your hand, and also because if the button does have 89 in his hand he quite likely also has a T or 7 himself to raise before the flop (try to think of hands with 89 and without T or 7 he could raise with, there aren't many, although there is AA89 and the like).


However, if the button could possibly make the same move with top two or a smaller set maybe with a straight draw as well, then you have to call even though you don't like it.


All in all, you are in a fairly rotten spot whatever you do, and as Ray Zee said, it all comes from playing such a bad hand out of position for a raise before the flop.


Oh no!! Not again!

sorry to disagree...but you drawing odds do not look correct.


when you flop a set, the most your odds can be is one card for four of a kind, or three cards to match each of the other two cards on the board to fill up....that is a total of seven outs.


seeing 7 cards, that leaves 47 unseen...thus 40 to 7 odds, twice because there are two cards to come.

No, seven outs on 4th street and *10* outs on 5th street, because you can fill up if the board comes a running pair.


Also note that if you can see 7 cards there are 45 unseen, not 47 as you stated.


Assuming that it's Omaha, and that you don't have any of the needed cards in your hand, the chances of filling up are:


1 minus the chances of missing twice,


which is:


1 - (38/45 x 34/44) = .347.


i.e. a 34.7% chance of filling up or making quads. Slightly better than 2 to 1 against.


This can vary depending on what the other player's got e.g. in the situation posted, if you assume he's got 89 in his hand, there are 9 "seen" cards (even though you can't see 2 of them!), and the sums change to:


1 - (36/43 x 32/42) = .362, i.e. 36.2% chance.


However, assume that he's got 789T, i.e. two cards you do need and two cards you don't, and the chances change to:


1 - (38/43 x 34/42) = .286 i.e. 28.5% chance. About 5 to 2 against.


Note that him having the cards you do need is more significant than him having cards you don't. if you see what I mean.


Finally, in almost the worst possible case in the situation posted, you have trips Ts and one of the cards needed to fill up (a 7), while the other player has 789T, the chances are:


1 - (39/43 x 35/42) = .244 i.e. about 24.4% chance. Slightly worse than 3 to 1 against.


Errors and omissions exempted - I did the above in haste.


Oh no!! Not again!

don't forget the outside chance of the board pairing with runner-runner

...IDIDITAGAIN..forgot where I was that is..diff between the 45 & 47 is omaha and hold-em. sorry about that.

I didn't forget it; the chance of a running pair is why there are 10 outs on the river and only 7 on 4th street.


Oh no!! Not again!

Post all Omaha hands on the "Other Poker Games" Forum (see Ray Zee and 3 Bet Brett responses in the "No Limit O8 post by Omaha Whale)