TOTALLY botched this hand - Advice Puh-leeze

[Wyers]

PokerRoom 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

CO is TAG - no read on MP2

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (17 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, SB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (13.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>

SB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, SB folds, UTG calls, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero folds, CO folds, UTG folds.

I figured if I cold called this for 2 bets the pot would have wound up capped and I would have been taken along for the ride (I did not expect CO to fold). Freaked out and folded... should I have hung in? The pot was huge by this point.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

[MicroBob]

Was it raised on the turn? It just says he bets but you said it was 2-cold so I'll assume that's the case.

You aren't drawing to the nuts....but there's a pretty good chance you'll be good if you hit your club. You can't fold here.

[doughhater]

I can't figure out how you managed to put money into the pot on the flop. You were 3 bet pf, you totally whiffed the flop, and now an opponent is betting through the field into the pf 3 bettor. It is a virtual lock that the flop is going to be raised, so you will have to invest 2 bets with your no pair, no draw. But then, on the turn, your absolute dream card (any club) peels off and you ditch your now nut draw like a hot potato. When you called the flop were you hoping 3 queens would magically appear on the turn?

Sorry, I'm feeling a little confrontational right now, but I really dislike every postflop decision that you made.

[ThrillFactor]

You said CO is TAG, so I'm assuming he plays well post flop also. Given that, after being checkraised the only hand he might conceivably have that he'll 3-bet with here (after 3-betting preflop) is K /images/graemlins/club.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif, and that's pretty unlikely. Call to your 9 outs.

[Evan]

PF is fine.

Flop is an easy call getting 19-1 with overs (even though they're probably not worth more than 2 outs between them) and a backdoor nut-flush draw. When it's raised you're now getting 26-1, you're now getting odds to call if only your backdoor lfush outs are good.

The fold on the turn is really really bad. You're getting 8.5-1 which is more than enough to call even if you discount the 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif and 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif. This is just an unexplainable fold in a big pot with a big draw.

[MicroBob]

just picking a nit....but he is NOT drawing to the nuts.
Obviously he should be staying in...but if a 2, 6 or 7 of clubs comes off I wouldn't be able to cap it against anyone raising or re-raising me.

unlikely?? yes.
but it still isn't the nuts.


BTW - a few minutes ago I had 6s3s in the big blind.
The board was something like 59K24 all spades.
My straight-flush beat some guy's AsAd.
Crazy crap happens sometimes (and he could have gotten rid of me before it started if he hadn't limped PF LP after 3 limpers).

[jtr]

Agree with everyone else that the turn fold is awful.

On the flop, is there not a case for raising instead of calling, to protect your overcard outs? Yes, it's likely that you'll be reraised, but that should certainly improve your pot equity by pushing some weak draws out.

[doughhater]

There is no case for raising on the flop. You claim to want to improve your pot equity by pushing out weak draws, but you are the one with the weak draw in this case. You have reverse implied odds on your overcard outs as there is a very good chance that you could spike one and STILL be crushed. As for the argument that you are getting 19-1 on the flop call, poppycock. You have to take all probable action into account. When it is your turn on the flop, yes there are 19 small bets in the flop, but it WILL be raised behind you, meaning that you are, in fact investing 2 sb into a pot containing 27 sb. Yeah, big pots are neat and all, but your hand is so weak, and your outs so questionable, that even 13.5-1 is not good enough to continue.

However, now that the money somehow got into the middle, I will reiterate that it is imperative that you do not fold on this turn. Never ever ever. Doing so is tantamount to throwing money away.

[LawsNStats]

You should have folded the flop. I think your pre-flop play was good, your going to want to narrow the field with AQo. When it was re-raised--I would put KK as the most likely hand--possibly AKs. Calling was good because your in for 2 bets already. The mistake was at the flop. There were not enough out to justify putting any more money into that pot.

After going as far a the turn--folding with flush draw with that pot is ridiculous.

Honestly, I told my girlfriend--if your going to play poker... say for only 3 hours a week. You could read TOP in the same amount of time and never make a mistake like that.

Don't mean to sound harsh... just giving you some good advise.

[bakku]

There's nothing to think about on the turn, click the 'check/call any bet' button and proceed from there.

[bakku]

You should have folded the flop.

No way.

I think your pre-flop play was good, your going to want to narrow the field with AQo.

You're not raising here to narrow the field, you're raising because you likely have the best hand and huge pot equity.

When it was re-raised--I would put KK as the most likely hand--possibly AKs.

What makes you think that?

Calling was good because your in for 2 bets already.

Folding would be retarded.

The mistake was at the flop. There were not enough out to justify putting any more money into that pot.

Hero is getting 19:1 on his call.

[doughhater]

I repeat, hero was not getting 19-1 on the flop call. The pot it going to be raised behind you, so at best you are getting 13.5-1. Coupled with the fact that your outs are dubious at best, you have an easy fold.