Stuck with TPSh*t Kicker

[fsuplayer]

Anybody raise anywhere here at all?

Anybody fold this anywhere?


Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, MP calls, CO folds, Button folds, Hero completes, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG folds, MP calls, Hero calls.

River: (9 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>


comments on any streets are welcome

thanks,

fsuplayer

[Guido]

I would either bet and take it from there which means that I fold after any further aggression. Or I would check-call the flop when I have the odds and fold on the turn when I don't improve.

When you play it the way you did, you have no idea where you are but I don't think your line is terrible. I just like to control a hand.

Thanks

Guido

[Benjamin]

Looks reasonable to me. I don't want to fold, and I don't want to put in a lot of action either.

Sometimes passive is best.

Rationale for the river bet is, I suppose, that a single king better kicker will not be able to raise here, and lower pairs will check behind if given the chance, but will payoff frequently if you bet.

B.

[Dov]

Hi FSU,

I don't think this is too disappointing a situation to be in.

As you know from my other posts, I place a high emphasis on knowing where you are in the hand and having a solid table image. In this hand, assuming that either I or the big blind are new to the table, I would consider this to be a good time to test whether he is strong or weak, passive or aggressive. I would overplay my hand a little, just to get HU with him, and see what exactly he raises with from the BB. My line would go like this:

PF complete
flop C/R - If he 3 bets the flop, I check-call to the end
Turn Bet (and call a raise)
River Check (if he raised the turn), Bet if he called (and call a raise)

Keep in mind, this is not the best way to play the hand in general, but this is how I would play it if I don't know him yet, or I want to make a statement to the rest of the table. Keep in mind also that this limit is the perfect place for this type of play.

All criticism is welcome, as always.

Dov

PS - Why did you call the PF raise with this hand if you didn't want to play the K when it flopped? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[fsuplayer]

Ben-
Right or wrong, you hit my thinking right on the head for the whole hand.

Guido-
I, too, usually like to take control, but I felt that I was either way ahead (of QQ or JJ), or drawing thin, so check calling was okay.

I think my hand is too good to fold to the inevitable flop raise if i bet out.

fsuplayer

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
PS - Why did you call the PF raise with this hand if you didn't want to play the K when it flopped?

[/ QUOTE ]

For the same reason I play Axs to a raise in the same situation.
Its not that i didnt want to play the king when it flopped, just that I didnt want to get aggressive and throw a bunch of chips in the pot with it.

i thought it might be a great time for check-calling.

fsuplayer

[Dov]

[ QUOTE ]
i thought it might be a great time for check-calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this100%. Nothing wrong with check-calling when you're done advertising. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[tripdad]

i would definitely bet out on the flop. if BB raises and anyone calls, you can call then fold turn unimproved. if you succeed in getting heads up, i 3-bet the flop to see exactly where you are.

cheers!

[DonkeyKong]

Sklansky HEPAP p. 65:
"When you have flopped top pair, either aces or kings, and you have a weak kicker it might be right to check and call. Notice that if you don't have the best hand, you save money by not having to call any raise. Also notice (and this is extremely important) that few free cards can hurt you. Specifically, when you have aces and, to a lesser degree kings, you are not worried about overcards beating you."

Note if you have a weak kicker to go along with top pair that is less than K:
1) bet if few players
2) check and fold if many opponents -- unless you are early position and bet comes from late position -- then raise to reduce the field...

good examples on p. 67