Help need on questionable PL play

Played PL @ HP tonite, 5-10 blinds, 400 min buy-in. Bought in for 500, game had just started. I usually play limit, but have played this game twice before, winning about $500 each time.


Tonight I dropped $500, and despite winning before, I feel like I have no idea how to play PL (limit I can hold my own).


Various hands:


HAND #1:


Dealt 5-7s in SB.


3 limpers, i put in 5, BB checks.


Flop: 4-5-7R.


Bet pot. $50


I caller (BB)


Turn: 9


I check, figuring BB must have a connected on flop.

Sure enough, BB bets $100. I call.


River: 4, pairing board.


I check, BB bets $100, I call. He shows 7-9 and takes down pot.


Question: Should I have bet turn, check-raised turn or folded turn? Same with river?


HAND #2:


Dealt 10-Kd UTG. I throw in $10. I realize thats a little loose, but I tend to play more hands preflop - I can get away from them pretty easily. Also, there wasn't alot of raising preflop tonite. Flop is seen 5 handed.


Flop: 7-7-K rainbow.


BB bets $50. Now with 4 players to act behind him, I have him either on a K with a better kicker or a 7. I decide to fold. My other option I mulled over was raising the pot. However, I was short stacked ($200) and that would have been it for me.


Question: Was folding correct? (FYI, all other players folded.)


HAND #3:


Am dealt KK in BB. Three players limp and I raise pot. I get two callers.


Flop: A-5-2, two diamonds.


I check (weak or smart?), check, check, button bets pot. I fold. I figured that someone had to have an ace calling the preflop raise. Either I was a big dog, or a small favorite to a flush/straight draw.


Question: Should I have bet or called flop (FYI, all other players folded)


HAND #3:


Dealt 6-7c on button I limp with 4 other players.


Flop 4-5-7, rainbow with one club.


BB bets pot, UTG raises to $225. This would put me all in. What do I do? I fold, as well as BB, and UTG takes down pot.


Question: Should I have folded?


HAND #4:


Dealt 9-Kd in cutoff. hand was straddled to $20. I have only about $100 left. I call, with two others and straddler makes it 40 more. I call.


Flop: K-x-x.


Straddler bets pot, I call all in and lose to his AA.


I realize playing short stacked is a huge disadvantage at PL, but I felt like playing a little cards and not losing too much. I normally would play 15-30, or 6-12 Omaha8 Kill. I've played in high stakes games before and won (ie: $5000 buy in, PL to $300 which is really more like a 100-300 game) so it's not the betting limits, but rather the strategy.


Any advice??


Thanks


GT

Here are some simplistic comments. The answers to all you questions depend on many unknowns e.g. who was playing.


HAND #1:


Question: Should I have bet turn, check-raised turn or folded turn? Same with river?




Once the board pairs on the river, any pair (higher than a 7) BB has beats you. Would he have raised before the flop with a big pair? Would a try at a check raise on the flop taken it there or given you any more information?


HAND #2:


Dealt 10-Kd UTG. I throw in $10. I realize thats a little loose, but I tend to play more hands preflop - I can get away from them pretty easily.




Too loose. You can play looser with position, but should play tighter without it. Many limit players see position in relationship to the button. If there is a maniac or consistent aggressor at the PL table, think of position in relationship to him.


HAND 3


OK to fold KK here, but it depends on the image you have constructed at the table. If your opponents think you will only bet here w/ AK or AA, go ahead.


Hand 3 Redux


6c7c. Bet all. But that's just me. UTG is trying to protect a vulnerable hand. Will your call bring in BB? One of the major joys of PL is moving all your chips. It remains debatable as to which has the most impact, betting or calling. Maybe another player will chime in on this hand before I send you to the poor house, but that hand with that flop only has one problem: you don't have more chips. Think of the fun if a 3c hits 4th street.


HAND 4


Sounds like it was time to go home.

Disclaimer: I'm pretty tight.


Overall: You give us your stack size and position (good), but not the stack size or any other info (hand distributions, tendencies, etc.) about the other players (bad). Sometimes these factors can change the correct play drastically.


Hand 1: I'd probably muck it preflop. Before I ever enter a hand out of position, I ask myself "what kind of flop do I want?" Truthfully, there are very few good flops for 75s. You happened to get one of the better ones, and it was still difficult to play correctly.


I think leading after the flop is correct, with the intention to bet the turn on any card other than a 4 or a 6. If you lead and are raised, it's a lot easier to get away from it and save the river bet.


Hand 2: I would not have played the hand, but if I did, I'd muck it for the same reason you did.


Hand 3: As you realized, you stack size effectively str8jacketed you. I don't think this is a good place to get your money in. With a larger stack (x3) you could consider the move in semibluff if you think there's a good chance to buy the pot. I suspect you weren't the only one on a str8 draw here. Good laydown.


Hand 4: Straddlers live for this; picking up rockets on the straddle. Makes their almost mandatory raise very hard to read. I think he misplayed it though: he should have jammed and loved the action. File this one away for this player so you can exploit it later.


Again, I would not have played this hand in this situation, but once you call the 40 preflop and a K comes, I think you're committed.


Better luck,


-Oz-


PS: Read the Ciaffone-Rueben book if you haven't yet. I think you'll find the investment worthwhile.

Hand #1:


Your position killed you. If you had been in late position and he had bet into you, you could have been MUCH more sure that you were behind. However, this hand is not cut and dry. It all depends on the player. If you don't know the player, my advice is to NOT commit a lot of chips on a questionable hand from out of position by check-calling. Wait until you know him better. And don't come in with weak connectors from early position. Play those hands on the button or cutoff.


However, the river killed you on this hand because it means ANY hand he was betting now beats you. The call on the river was a BIG mistake.


These hands like 75s are great to play in No Limit when it only costs 5. Because if you hit the flop hard, you can protect your hand and get someone to commit without having to guess if he outdrew you later on. In PL, you cannot push him out and then he's able to pressure you later. Therefore, the hand is not worth as much in the SB in PL vs. NL.


Against an unknown opponent, I check-fold the turn. If I know the opponent, my EV on this hand goes up astronomically, because I can fold or stay with much more certainty.


Hand #2:


Your position is terrible, and your hand is fairly terrible. Fold pre-flop. Do you limp in early position with KT in a limit game? If so, I believe that is a big hole in your limit play. In pot limit, this is suicide.


Hand #3:

If you know the player, you may want to bet out and then shut down if he calls or raises. Otherwise, check-folding is fine here.


Hand #3-a:

You should probably commit with this hand. You are clearly short-stacked, so go with it and hopefully double up to give yourself a playable stack. You may even be ahead as he could be betting a naked 6. If you're behind, you have monster outs. If the stacks are big, then you have to really think about whether or not you're ahead. With a short stack, this is a hand you should commit with. Practically a nobrainer.


Hand #4:

K9? Fold. Now, let's assume you want to play it anyway.


If you want to play against the straddler's random hand, raise here. Let me see, you can call the twenty, and raise 50, putting 75 into the pot. You are so short-stacked here that calling 20 is just silly. Push it in and at least get it heads up with the straddler.


Overall, you didn't play terribly for your first pot limit session, but you played in a way that was glaringly obvious to your opponents you are a limit player with no PL experience. They surely took advantage of this. I would suggest playing the smallest PL game you can find before venturing back to this table.


Some big differences you want to focus on between PL and limit.


1. Kickers are life and death. You will not believe how expensive AQ and KQ can be.


2. Position is more important than the cards.


3. Don't call pre-flop with marginal hands out of position. In limit hold'em it gets expensive because of errors getting compounded later, but in Pot Limit, it will bust you. Refer to K9 and KT above.


4. Play more liberally on the button, but only if you're willing to bet when checked to, and that includes fourth street when the pot is big.


5. stack size stack size stack size. Don't ever CALL a preflop bet with a large portion of your stack. That is limit hold'em thinking. Raise or fold. Hand #5 was a terrible preflop play. Post flop, your decision is automatic because of the potsize and your short stack, but preflop, (assuming K9 is worth a play), you should have raised.


natedogg

the other guys have given you some good comments on those hands, so I will just add a bit of general stuff...you stated "have only about a $100 left.." that indicates to me that you had more of a reckless attitude at a time when you need to tighten up and play your best. that attitude is a road to ruin.


the P/L to $300 game which you mentioned sounds terrible!!! I like P/L and feel you can enjoy it more than limit AFTER you get more experience! play in smallest game, play tight-tight and observe all that other players are doing. good luck