Q6s, posted in the CO.

[Entity]

Villain is SLA-A (27%/15% PFR, 2.02 Tot-A).

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero (poster) checks, Button calls, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP3 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

Questions: Button is unlikely to reraise. Is 11:1 in great relative position good enough for Q6s?

Flop re-raise: I've got a backdoor flush, bottom pair, and a backdoor straight, along with position. Good raise?

Turn call: odds for gutshot + 2pr/trips draws, easy.

Uber easy river fold, yay.

Rob

[runa]

I'm wondering about how to evaluate backdoor str8 draws. Here you have 2 gutshots to fill and you happened to hit one of them on the turn.

Is there a simple way to value backdoor draws in terms of their connectedness?

For example, in this case you might consider this equal to a 2 gapper where 2 specific cards are required for a backdoor str8, and would only be a 1 outer.

If all 3 were connected there would be 2 cards to improve to an OESD which gives you twice as many outs after improving, thus making it closer to 2 outs?

[btspider]

Not all backdoor straights are created equal. I tend to call the flop here since some turn cards will kill your hand. If you hit two pair or trips, you can raise the field. If you miss, but catch a flush draw, you can call again after the field acts. I'm a big fan of relative position though /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[btspider]

url keeps failing.. search my posts 7 weeks back for "8 outs"

a 2 gap backdoor straight is effectively an 8 outer to a gutshot. its worth .5 outs before discounting for the non-nuts, etc.

---------------------------

- when you have a 3 card straight you have 8 outs to a gutshot and 8 outs to a OESD.
- when you have a single 3 card 2-gapper straight draw, you have 8 outs to a gutshot.

thus:
x = draw to OESD
y = draw to gutshot

x = 2y
8x + 8y = 1.5

16y + 8y = 1.5
24y = 1.5

8y = .5 (8 outs to a gutshot)

[Entity]

Your link sucks spider. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

The main reason for the raise was that I thought I might have the best hand, but it was very vulnerable, and I wanted a free card if possible.

I think it would've worked had SB not hit one of his 6 outs. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rob

[DeathDonkey]

Good free card play. If he had QJ I like how he played it too.

-DeathDonkey

[vipchump]

I curious where people are getting the 1.5 outs for backdoor draws? Here's how I calculate my odds:

For straights -
1) Openender straight (e.g. 7 8 9 )
Your chance of hitting a straight is (8/47 * 8/47) + (8/47 *4/46) = 4.44%
2) Onegapper straight (e.g. 7 8 T )
Your chance of hitting a straight is (8/47 * 4/46) + (4/47 * 8/46) = 3%
3) Twogapper straight (e.g. 6 8 T or 6 7 T)
Your chance of hitting a straight is (8/47 * 4/46) = 1.5%

From my understanding 1 out is about 4% (4.3% ish) so why do people count a backdoor straight as 1.5 outs?

Also I calculate the backdoor flush as (10/47* 9/46) = 4.2%

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
I curious where people are getting the 1.5 outs for backdoor draws? Here's how I calculate my odds:

For straights -
1) Openender straight (e.g. 7 8 9 )
Your chance of hitting a straight is (8/47 * 8/47) + (8/47 *4/46) = 4.44%
2) Onegapper straight (e.g. 7 8 T )
Your chance of hitting a straight is (8/47 * 4/46) + (4/47 * 8/46) = 3%
3) Twogapper straight (e.g. 6 8 T or 6 7 T)
Your chance of hitting a straight is (8/47 * 4/46) = 1.5%

From my understanding 1 out is about 4% (4.3% ish) so why do people count a backdoor straight as 1.5 outs?

Also I calculate the backdoor flush as (10/47* 9/46) = 4.2%

[/ QUOTE ]
BD flush comes in about the same as a 1 outer, IIRC, but is accorded an extra half an out due to the hidden nature of it (IIRC).

BD straights come in different varieties (depending on the number of gaps in them).

Both are covered in the outs section of SSHE, which I really recommend.

Rob

[runa]

I noticed that in your previous example you used 16y = n where n is the odds to draw to the backdoor 2 gapper str8 draw. In this case I think your 8y = n = .5 is correct, but I'm wondering why you used 16 in the other example since they are equivalent odds.

[detruncate]

2-gap bdsd = 0.5 outs
1-gap bdsd = 1 out
0-gap bads = 1.5 outs

bdfd = 1.5 outs

Of course, you might have to devalue them a bit (or a lot) depending on the board texture, but this is a good starting point.