Q,Q a trouble hand

[rybones]

6 handed. ps 20+2 blinds 25/50
you have 1800 and sb has 2200
sb is lag
utg calls
you raise to 250 from co.
Sb calls and everyone else folds

flopt is K /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

sb bets 200

your move?

[unfrgvn]

You defined him as loose aggressive, so to me is he making that bet with anything. Will he lay down the hand if he is beat and you reraise? If so I would pop him back to 600 and see what he does. If he pushes then I think you have to lay it down with about T1000 left. If you think he will push without anything then I might just smooth call and see if something good happens.

[rachelwxm]

With the pot size comparing to your stack and the over card, unless you have a clear read that he is LAG, I would probably lay down here. Or maybe you can reraise a bit to see where you are at but if he keeps come back, I wouldnt call.
Even a LAG could catch top pair sometimes. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Good play.

[The Yugoslavian]

I agree with Rachel here. The biggest problem is that a LAG player could be playing any king as a hand. He/she may have the WPT syndrome where they've seen too many pros play Ax and Kx aggressively.

That being said, there seem to be a couple types of LAG players, ones who take shots at pots and will back down and ones who will not back down unless they are put all in and hold absolutely nothing. If you've seen this player lay down after stabbing at a pot post flop -- I think you have a big enough stack to make it worth your while reraising him about the 600 unfrgn recommends and folding if reraised all in.

Folding in the situation cannot be a bad move unless you have a great read that he is bluffing and will back down if raised.

[morgan180]

I ran in to a QQ issue last night too - here is the hand history - I know I played this bad, i dreamt about it in my sleep even - in retrospect, based on my stack size I should have been all-in pre-flop and i might have been able to push this guy out. Correct?

then once i make the mistake pre-flop and the flop comes do you go for the check raise instead of betting out?

any way i give myself a 0 out of 10 rating on how i played this hand..

$10/1 Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed)

UTG (t2255)
Hero (t820)
Button (t2290)
SB (t625)
BB (t2010)

the guy was pretty loose - showing down a couple of choice hands K8o, etc. and pretty passive.

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t200, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t400</font>, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls t200, UTG calls t200.

Flop: (t1300) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets t420 (All-In)</font>, BB folds, UTG calls t420.

Turn: (t2140) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t2140) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t2140

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG has Js Td (two pair, jacks and tens).
Hero has Qd Qc (one pair, queens).
Outcome: UTG wins t2140. </font>

[The Yugoslavian]

Given your stack size, the blinds, and the quality of your starting hand I think going all-in is the best idea. You either win 500 chips right then without a showdown since UTG has already donated to the pot or you get into a showdown where you are almost always a favorite (if you run into KK and AA, well, it happens). You can even show your QQ if everyone folds the pot for good advertising value and so the table will feel like they dodged a bullet by not calling you.

The biggest problem with min raising is that you will get called by many hands that loose players play that either have an A or a K. So, while the flop was actually good for you b/c you had an overpair, if either an A or K comes you probably have to grit your teeth and bet anyway b/c the pot is so big -- and the chance of getting called by a better hand is much higher at this point than preflop where you only fear AA, KK, AK.

This hand does not seem to be worth nightmares, however, the worst thing you could have done with it was folded, /images/graemlins/smile.gif. You played post flop correctly b/c you are pot committed and even if you aren't, you figure to have the best hand on that flop.

Since something can definitely be said for trying to get full value out of your monster hand this late at a SNG ...

I give you 6/10! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[morgan180]

Thanks for the generous score although i think you're a little too kind - i agree i should have been all-in pre-flop and i really like the advertising idea as being on the short stack with a loose big stack immediately to my right i need some help if i am going to pick up any more blinds on steal attempts.

I think I get paranoid with a monster because I have been on the short stack with hands like AA-JJ, AK and raise (~3x BB) and all I pick up is the blinds, which is a disaster IMO. So maybe I just need to separate AA-KK from QQ down to TT/AJo/KQ (any more here?)and with the first two limp or min-raise and the second group get everything in early.

Speaking strictly for this situation on the short stack of course!

Thanks again!

[The Yugoslavian]

Hey, 300 chips with no risk sounds great to me! Plus you get advertising value so your steal equity for the next time you steal your steal equity might actually be higher. So, if you've been stealing a lot, you might get call and receive full value for your QQ, or, you can advertise and hopefully steal more later. Try not to be paranoid with a monster. Even with KK or AA going all in here is a great move, especially b/c the hands u would get called by might be ultra dominated (AJ for instance). Of course, if you're going to slowplay, those are the hands to do it with!

I always think that the trickiest thing about QQ is early in a tournament where it is a pseudo monster -- it is tempting to play it like AA, KK, or like a normal pair where you limp and try to hit a set.

[patrick dicaprio]

you are right that you should have pushed.

Pat