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View Full Version : Big bets in NL/PL??


09-26-2001, 05:28 PM
How do you measure your hourly rate in big bet poker? In limit poker, the earning power of a particular player is often measured in big bets per hour. Is there any way of converting this to NL or PL? Maybe in relation to the blinds?


Stephan

09-26-2001, 06:29 PM
I have an idea. How about dollars per hour?

09-26-2001, 07:00 PM
Ok, I even laughed. But seriously, when you want to compare limit games to big bet poker, and you know you can make 1 big bet/hour but you are not sure about the NL/PL game, is there a way to compare these?


is a $2-$5 blind PL Holdem game bigger than a $10-$20 game? How much bigger? And yes, I do realize it depends a lot on the players...but isn't there a general guideline to match them up?


Stephan

09-26-2001, 10:48 PM
Yes $2-5 pot-limit is MUCH larger than $10-20. Big enough you could get an entire $10-20 buy-in involved in one hand. Big pots could reach as much as $3000 or more. I play in .25-.25 pot-limit hold em home game and i've seen guys go through $300-$350 in a night. As far as a matchup guideline......I don't really know of one.

09-27-2001, 02:16 AM
Let's put it this way- in a 1-2 dollar blind pot-limit hold-em hand the other night, there was an 1100$+ pot, and it was headsup after the flop. Pot and no-limit are consequently, much more nerve-racking than 10-20. In 10-20 if someone sucks out on you and check-raises it costs you 40- in pot-limit, even in the average pots, it will often cost you ten times that. Of course, in these games the blinds are smaller and your money actually has much greater value, in my opinion, because usually big hands are contested heads up instead of with 5 players calling to the river. As for your hourly rate, pot-limit and no-limit are games in which skill is at a premium- and consequently, if you are more skilled than your opponents on average, you will win much more consistently in these games than you would in 10-20. I'm not sure you can really figure an hourly earning. If you are playing in good games, (soft ones, like I do-lol) you will win much more consistently, and in greater amounts, and probably never want to play limit Hold-em again...

09-27-2001, 11:54 AM
as Ty said in Caddyshack when asked how he measured himself with other golfers.


But seriously, Anon's answer of by $ per hour is the bottom line. Why do you think its funny?


I don't think there is a way that would be valid to measure vs the blinds. Some games, people have $15,000 in front of them with a $5-$10 blind, some only have $1,500 with the same structure.


If you've played 250 hours and are up $25,000, its pretty simple to see you're at $100/hr. Why worry about how many blinds per hour?


gcgang

09-27-2001, 01:44 PM
Experienced PL/NL players may be able to correct me here, but I feel Stephan's question while maybe not 'correctly' asked touches what I feel is a big problem with PL (I don't play NL at all) as opposed to limit poker is the feeling of a lack of control.


You can't sit down in any PL game and know before you start what your hourly expectations will be like and how the swings will compare to a limit game.


First of all, the stacks decides what kind of game it will be like. Hundreds and even thousand of dollards can go between players in a $1-$1-$2 PLH game where players play with big stacks and an aggressive style, while my local $5-$5-$10 works with a minimum buy-in of just $200, and as many players buy for this minimum buy-in, the game may not contain much bigger swings than a wild 1-1-2 game with big stacks.


Secondly, what's a good pot-limit player? Assume a 1-1-2 game where all players bring $1,200 to the table. Now you've got a game where you could have heavy action at every street, and even on the river. Imagne in this game pots getting raised and re-raised pre-flop, bet on the flop, check-betted on the turn and perhaps a pot-sized bluff-raise wins it on the river? Being skilled to play this game is a whole other ball game than playing a pot-limit game where people have less than 50 times the big blind in their stacks, which becomes a game of playing big pairs and big cards only pre-flop and grinding it out.


So, while straight limit Hold'em is, and will always, remain straight-limit Hold'em only with various stakes and various levels of difficulity depending on your opponents, pot-limit will be a totally different game from table to table and game to game.


lars

09-27-2001, 09:49 PM
its actually alot easier than in limit to determine money per hour. in limit its determined over a long term, but changes based on the game. in no limit you can learn to get a feel for how much each player figures to lose say over the next four hours. the add up the lost money and take away the rake and what the other winning players should win, and whats left is yours.

i find in pot limit i can control my money much better and realize my earn more frequently. most hands are head up and less often you have to endure longshot beats.

id also say a normal 2,5 blind pot limit game plays about like a 15 30 style game. but of course when the game is aggressive pot limit gets much bigger faster.

09-28-2001, 11:25 PM
Stephen, limit poker is generally found in all cardrooms. The same can not be said for P/L. Thus since limit games are by far more familiar to players overall, the big bets per hour has become a method of comparing one size limit game to another.


but, stop and think....they really are talking about $$$ per hour. Thus if you want to compare apples to oranges (limit to P/L) then you can think of $$ per hour.


Not sure just what you want to determine, so not sure what else to tell you unless I make a guess...this varries a lot...but to play P/L you probably need to be ready to buy in at least 3 or 4 times to have a rather adequate bankroll,,,,and if a player can lose that much, then a big win would be bigger than that total.


unlike Lars, I feel a player has more control in P/L than in limit. for one thing you will not face as many draw-outs because UNlike limit, the pot odds will keep many from drawing. whereas in limit the odds are nearly allways there.


if you can watch a P/L game, the number of chips on the table will tell a lot. one of above post stated (I think) that in a $1 & $2 game he sees a $3,000 pot..IF true, then that would be extremely rare. Don't let them scare you away from what many believe to be a better game.

09-29-2001, 08:48 PM
Actually, I stated I saw an 1100 dollar pot, although someone else may have seen a 3000. Remember though Stephan, you don't have to be in the 1100 dollar pot. The amount that you have in front of you determines how much you can win. Large multi-way pots are pretty rare in Pot and No-limit Hold-em, so generally, winning a big hand means doubling your stack. I love pot and no-limit because drawing out becomes much more complicated. In limit, people see the pot, see that it is one big bet to call, and usually do, even with little chance of making their hand. In pot-limit, the pot may be big, but so will the price be to make the draw. You have to start considering other factors: like "if I make my flush draw for 200, will this guy pay me off, or will I only make what the pot is laying me now?"

I think the general consensus is, pot and no-limit hold-em are better games (for skilled pot and no-limit players) than limit games. In limit poker, you can follow all the "rules" of good play, and still lose mountains of cash. In pot-limit or no-limit, a very good player will win much of the time that he/she plays, provided that that player is not playing in games that are extremely difficult. The problem with this is, many people willing to play these games are deceptive, agressive players who are difficult to read, and finding opponents who aren't might be tough.

10-01-2001, 11:32 AM
First, thanks for all the answers. Brought some light into my confused head...


I guess what I was really after (although not clearly stated) is this:


in a limit game, literature states a good player can earn one big bet per hour, excellent players even more.


how about PL or NL? Are there any such guidelines?