Need a Plan for This Disgusting Hand

[fsuplayer]

This hand felt straight up fugly on every street.

Any help would be great.
The one coherent thought that went through my mind was that i should CR the turn, but i whiffed.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, MP folds, Button folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks.

River: (4.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

fsuplayer

[fyodor]

Man that was fugly.

I just straight come out betting at that flop. Some of the time (10-20%) I will go for the checkraise on the flop given the preflop raiser.

I think waiting for the turn to checkraise is an over-rated move. You want to use it if you have very little chance of being outdrawn on the river. Over 90% (probably way over) of the time the bettor will call your checkraise and take a look at the river card. In a case like this one where he probably has an Ace it ends up costing you.

If you bet (or c/r) the flop and then lead the turn you can often get them to lay down a hand like this that would have outdrawn you.

I live by that old line "they can't fold if you don't bet"

[TJD]

I don't mind checking the flop into the PFR as long as you CR!! Why give BB 8.5:1 on a draw?

Betting out is OK too 'cos you can then 3 bet maybe with a hand that is probably best.

My line would be to CR flop.

trevor

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Man that was fugly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was hoping the title and the opening line of the post could prepare you, i guess there is still some shock though. Its understandable.

i like CRing the flop here best, make the BB pay for anything he may hold.

thanks

fsuplayer

[Fabian]

I would probably reraise pre-flop, depending on players and game pace etc of course.

I believe checkcalling is the worst possible line on the flop (let's forget checkfolding), with betting and checkraising being much better. I would probably go for a checkraise most of the time to put maximum pressure on the BB to fold, since I didn't get him out pre-flop.

The turn looks tricky, since the BB is still in and you can't be positive you're still ahead. With the previous action in this hand, I think I'd bet out since the preflop raiser might not bet again with you both calling the flop.

On the river, I'd checkcall if the turn was checked through like it was here, but I wouldn't like it very much.

[Dov]

C/R the flop

Bet the Turn

Check Call the River

[Benjamin]

I like both check raising and betting out on the flop. Betting out could have the fun result of getting a bet from BB, getting raised by utg, then you can re-raise and either lose BB or get more money in the pot, and lead the turn. Or a nice line is to smooth-call a raise, look for the overcall from BB, then check-raise the turn. Which will miss sometimes, but still be profitable.

I guess check/call the river if you are heads-up with utg (folding there is bad, I think, even when the pot was as small as it was with your line). Sometimes betting out will be better. Say you still have BB with you, but not the preflop raiser. More likely he's still hanging around with a worse king or an underpair than an ace.

B.

[gonores]

If PF raiser is at all aggressive, this is a great spot for the bet flop/checkraise turn (when PFR flat calls the flop) line....maybe. Otherwise, just coming out betting on every street until you are told you are beat is a fine line as well.

[Rah]

Check/calling the flop is terrible. Why are you not checkraising or betting this flop?

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Check/calling the flop is terrible. Why are you not checkraising or betting this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

umm...

[ QUOTE ]
The one coherent thought that went through my mind was that i should CR the turn, but i whiffed.


[/ QUOTE ]

i already said that i should put in more action on the flop, either by CR-ing, or leading out.

fsuplayer

[Cleveland Guy]

[ QUOTE ]
i already said that i should put in more action on the flop, either by CR-ing, or leading out.

fsuplayer

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, I'll leave that part alone. I'm curious as to your decision for a river fold? Were you that sure that UTG had Ax?

I think you have to call the river bet here. No one showed any agression to his PFR, so he could be using that as a scare card.

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
Otherwise, just coming out betting on every street until you are told you are beat is a fine line as well.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto.

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious as to your decision for a river fold? Were you that sure that UTG had Ax?

[/ QUOTE ]

a combination of that, and fact that I was insta-mini-tilting by the time i checked the river card. It was awful the whole way, maybe including the river, but posting it, i just wanted to get a feel of how i should be playing flops like that. TP with AJ or KQ from the blinds against a pf raiser.

but yes, the river fold is extremely shady as well.

I need to post hands like this every once in a while to make sure I am thinking more at the tables.

the next session will be much better thought out bc of this.

thanks for all the responses guys,

fsuplayer