KJos hand

[emil3000]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $3.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, MP2 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO (poster) calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP3 calls, SB calls.

River: (15.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, SB folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB

Bad bet on the river? Too loose preflop? Raise if playing at all preflop?

[daveymck]

I personally would never open limp with KJ, either raise or fold, me being tight I think I would be folding.

After that I think the hand played itself. The flush and straight draws have all made it so I think I am probably check calling the river.

[phillydilly]

Ok, here goes...

PreFlop: perhaps a little loose, but not horrible
Flop: I like it, come out betting and not checking to the raiser
Turn: I also like the play here, I'm guessing the small blind was either slow playing two pair on the flop or hit two pair on the turn, also, you're charging more to flush/straight draws, so the 3-bet here was a good play
River: I really dont like MP3 coming to life here, without a read its hard to tell if he could have the straight or flush, some people would raise with AT or ATs some wouldn't. I also doubt he's slowplaying a set, if he was, he has to raise the turn with the flush and straight draws out there. My guess would be he has QQ and hit his set on the river. That being said, its possible he's trying to scare you off your hand based on the board, and for 1 more bet, i'd pay him off.

[Rico Suave]

emil3000:

Aside from your open limp with KJo from mp, I like your play in this hand. River bet is good.

--Rico

[tadams]

I just check and call on the river. The reason is because MP3 called 2 bets cold on the turn, so he probably has either a very strong hand or a very strong draw (unless he's a maniac). I think the draw is more likely since he didn't cap it on the turn. Therefore, I would put him on something like A /images/graemlins/heart.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif. I don't think a bet on the river is unreasonable because there is a good chance the SB will call you with a lesser hand. The only reason I don't bet is because of what MP3 might have and I can't imagine what else he could have had to call 2 cold on the turn that didn't beat you at this point.

-Tom

[tadams]

Limping with KJo from MP is correct pre-flop strategy. Raising with KJo is horrible from any position, except for a steal-raise.

[47outs]

Limping with KJoff is loosey goosey. It's a good hand....... for me to poop on.

Otherwise well played, I check/call the river.

outs

[emil3000]

Funny, funny. He indeed had a strong draw, strong as an insider. at suited he shows and scoops it up.
I have decided that my river bet probably is a bad idea, won't do it again.

[tadams]

According to SSH, KJo is playable from MP in a Tight Small Stakes Game and playable from EP in a Loose Small Stakes Game.

[Jeffro]

When you play KJo do you want more or less callers??

[JimRivett]

First in, middle positon with King Jack-off, I usually fold, unless the players behind are likely to fold to a raise.

These sort of starting hands are a little easier to play live because you have the ability to glance to your left to gain information, if I glance to my left now I see my front yard.

Regards, Jim

[Festus22]

I really don't like the check/call line on the river. I think betting here is a must.

The hands made on the river were queens, A-10, 10-9 or a backdoor flush and I don't think queens hang around given the turn action. That's a pretty small list not to bet for value against 2 opponents.

[tadams]

You are hoping for less callers. KJo doesn't play well in a multi-way pot. Ideally, you'd like to flop something like KT3 rainbow and hope someone has JT and calls you down.

You don't want to raise with KJo because it may force hands you want to play against (QJ, JT, J9, J8, J7) to fold, while hands you don't want to play against (AK, AJ, KQ) will still call. If the big hands are in, you want as many players in as possible and are hoping to flop something like a straight draw.

[Jeffro]

I agree with all you said but are you considering postion? Calling with easily dominated hands in what could easily considered early position is -ev. I beleive the situtation would have to be nearly perfect to limp here pre-flop. Hero limped and was raised by a dominating hand and paid the price, regardless of how the flop fell he was behind pre-flop.

[tadams]

KJo is profitable from MP in a Tight Small Stakes Game and profitable from EP in a Loose Small Stakes Game. Many players in these games will play hands like K4s or J7s and call you all the way to the river if a K or J flops, which is why KJo has a +EV in these games.

[Jeffro]

Let me ask is this verbatim from SSH?

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
According to SSH, KJo is playable from MP in a Tight Small Stakes Game and playable from EP in a Loose Small Stakes Game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think...for...yourself...

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Limping with KJo from MP is correct pre-flop strategy. Raising with KJo is horrible from any position, except for a steal-raise

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep studying. You're a little off here. We'll start with openlimping with KJo. Im having a hard time coming up with a place where i'd do that. Look at the dynamics of a big offsuit connector/broadway gapper. Do you really want to play this hand multiway if you can help it?

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't want to raise with KJo because it may force hands you want to play against (QJ, JT, J9, J8, J7) to fold, while hands you don't want to play against (AK, AJ, KQ) will still call.

[/ QUOTE ]

If anyone is calling the pre-raise with KQ or AJ, especially offsuit which many do, they'll likely call it with QJ, JT, J9 also. Coldcalling with KQ or AJ isn't representative of strong players. What you're hoping for is to not get 3 bet behind you.

b

[poolshark]

probably check call on river - if he has it - you save, if he doesnt - either he gives you a bet (induced) or he would have folded anyway

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
and profitable from EP in a Loose Small Stakes Game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Better play it well postflop. Though some advocate it, i don't play KJo from EP in a loose game. Especially for a limp. Unless it is unnaturally passive. aka...rare.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero is MP1 with J /images/graemlins/club.gif, K /images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $3.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls,

[/ QUOTE ]

ugh. If you're choosing to play this in this spot, do it a favor and raise it. What did KJo ever do to you to deserve openlimping?

Postflop: I think you played it fine but i'd check call the river. Everything hit and they're all likely to have called all that action with something. If it comes back to you for 2 bets, then you have some thinking to do.

b