JJ- pot-limit Hold-em

I was playing on CCCpoker in the 1-2 game, and I am dealt JJ in the cut-off. A mid-late position player raises to 9 dollars, gets called, then I call, as well as about 4 other players. (very unusual in this game). We see the flop 7 handed. I have about 270 in chips. The flop comes down 279 with 2 spades, and everyone checks around to me. I bet the pot. Then, a wily player with about 450 in his stack raises me the amount that I bet...

Everyone else folds, and I am now the only one left. I agonize for a while, then I fold the hand. I figured here, he knows I have an overpair (because of my unusual my call pre-flop), and was attempting to get me to re-raise him so that he could get my entire stack, which was now a little over 200. With 7 players seeing the flop, which is my fault, basically, I figure he probably had at least two pair, and more than likely a set. In addition to this odd raise giving him a potential re-raise from my overpair, the player probably figured there were others out there, and that his small raise might entice action from another player as well (perhaps AA,KK, or QQ). While I would do the same thing again against this player in this situation, he is very good, and I know he was certainly capable of making a play at this pot, but I absolutely couldn't call- it had to be re-raise or fold. I'd really like to get some input from some more experienced players. Was my thinking correct? Was my bet from the cut-off a mistake? Was my fold weak?

I would appreciate any comments about this hand, it has me a little perplexed...

Who was the player?

It depends! I hate to be so vague, but against some players I

would go all in on the flop or call on the flop and assuming a

non-threatening card comes on the turn than move all in. There

are also some players who I wouldn't think twice against mucking.

In a online game it becomes real difficult to read players accurately. Don't assume your opposition plays the way you do.

I would have made a reraise before the flop to try to thin the

field out and more clearly define my hand. If you play this hand

out a thousand times I don't think it will make that much of a difference if you call or fold on the flop against an average

opponent.


Bruce

I think Bruce is right about raise before the flop..should have.


but since you did not, perhaps you should have made a "feeler" bet of about 25 to 35 percent of the pot to learn who else wanted to continue in this hand.


Having said that, I must also say that I do not think your play was all that bad. His raise could have been based on strength, or it could have been a play....either way you can't call.

The player in question was MS Sunshine- whom I regard as a tricky player. MS was certainly capable of making a play at me here, but I just wasn't sure that this was a hand for me to go all in on. Given the 7 players seeing the flop, the likelihood of overpairs to the board of 972 was pretty big, so a player who knew this could use this raise as a powerful play whether they had a hand at all, or just a good draw like JT of spades. Definitely,by not re-raising before the flop, I most likely cost myself the pot, but even this is probably a marginal error, because the value of making a big hand in a large pot to me, at the time, was greater than the value of isolating against a smaller pair or an AK type of hand. Had someone bet before me, I might have folded- because of the likelihood that my jacks were beat either by the player who bet or someone who had checked with the intent of popping back. It just so happened that no one seemed interested except myself and the button- which made me worry even more that my opponent was strong. Anyway, I don't really regret the way I played the hand, but I definitely wanted to hear some more experienced players input, as this was an unusual situation for me. Thanks for the responses.

By my count there could only be 6 players in the hand if you were the cut-off. I am assuming the wiley player has the button. If this is true then IMO, given the size of the pot and your stack size you have an easy re-raise all in. I think you can safely discount AA and KK because with either of these hands the Button would probably re-raise before the flop. QQ and TT are possibilities. what is the stack size of the player who open raised pre-flop? I'm not sure I would make such a puny raise if I had a set. The raise would make sense if button had two big spades. This is because the person who open raised (O-R)could have an overpair. depending on his stack size O-R would have a very difficult call since he has to fear a set and could very easily get re-raised by you. What the baby raise does for the button is increase the chances of overcards being good should he hit one of them and it possibly gets him a free card if he wants one. if the button is on a flush draw I would expect that you would be called if you go all in.

Boris, you are quite possibly correct. There were 7 players, because my bet was the pot-limit, around 63. It is true that he may very well have made this play with a draw, I've seen this player do as much before- but doing it against me, I believe, for whatever reason, he wanted me to re-raise all-in. Whether this was because he had a set or just a great draw is another question. With a set he may play the hand the same way hoping to get not only my overcards, but any others, to read him for a draw and thus pay off his baby raise by re-raising themselves. I think here, he was going for the big pot- and his unusual bet was a great way to lure overcards into a re-raise. It is, of course, possible that I folded the winning hand, but regardless of what he held, I felt his intention, for whatever reason, was to entice me to go all-in. By the way, the open raiser had about 300 in his stack, so he didn't quite have the button covered.

You could definitely be right. Thanks.