Worst playrs are killing me at buble time

[Prime Time]

In the hand below, I was on the bubble pay-out on a Stars $50+5. You would think, at this level, there would be some common sense. I keep analysing this hand over and over, and I can't sleep. Read hand below and see further analysis. Question, should I have pushed B4 flop. That may have been my only saving grace, but I only would have picked up the blinds.



PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 (t8780)
Hero (t15189)
MP2 (t12970)
CO (t1644)
Button (t37279)
SB (t7705)
BB (t13319)
UTG (t18404)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t2400</font>, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button calls t2400, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (t5150) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets t12739 (All-In)</font>, Button calls t12739.

Turn: (t30628) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t30628) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t30628

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero has Qc Qs (two pair, queens and tens).
Button has 9h 5h (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Button wins t30628. </font>

This dork, went on shortly to the final table as a huge chip leader. Busted out 10th w/ Teecoy winning after being severely short stacked at the table.

I feel his all-in call was much better than his preflop 2,400 (4X BB) on 95s. Any comments?

[Sam T.]

In his position I wouldn't make this play, but...

-Is 4xBB this your standard raise? At the lower limits (where I play) overbetting pre-flop screams a pocket pair that doesn't want to see an overcard on the flop. Just curious if this might be a tell.

-Has he called raises with garbage before this? (Or called raises and then folded to a flop bet?) I don't think you need to be pushing pre-flop at this point, but it is an important piece of information.

-This flop makes me nervous, especially if he is a calling station and could well be sitting on JT or something similar. Why do you push? It seems like a case where only hands that beat you are going to call. (Obviously this is only partially true in this case.) Checking is a lousy option, since it invites a bluff you may not be able to call. Could you bet 1/2-2/3 the pot? It's a big chunk of your stack, but (against reasonable players) it would be a tough bet for him to call unless he is ahead.

I'd be curious what the smart kids think about this situation. It seems to come up a lot, and I tend to get killed.

[cowpie]

Why are you complaining? He had the worst hand preflop and on the flop. Send the kid $10 so he can keep playing poker. You'll win them back in no time.

[betgo]

That's a terrible beat.

I guess your opponent thought he might have the best hand on the flop if you had AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, or 88. He figures you wouldn't lead allin if you had a ten. He actually got a good flop for 95s, so maybe he felt he had to play it.

Preflop, this guy is the big stack and it's close to the bubble, so I assume he is calling with the intention of stealing from you later in the hand.

I certainly wouldn't make either call, but I see some rationale behind both.

[Prime Time]

[ QUOTE ]
In his position I wouldn't make this play, but...

-Is 4xBB this your standard raise? At the lower limits (where I play) overbetting pre-flop screams a pocket pair that doesn't want to see an overcard on the flop. Just curious if this might be a tell.

-Has he called raises with garbage before this? (Or called raises and then folded to a flop bet?) I don't think you need to be pushing pre-flop at this point, but it is an important piece of information.

-This flop makes me nervous, especially if he is a calling station and could well be sitting on JT or something similar. Why do you push? It seems like a case where only hands that beat you are going to call. (Obviously this is only partially true in this case.) Checking is a lousy option, since it invites a bluff you may not be able to call. Could you bet 1/2-2/3 the pot? It's a big chunk of your stack, but (against reasonable players) it would be a tough bet for him to call unless he is ahead.

I'd be curious what the smart kids think about this situation. It seems to come up a lot, and I tend to get killed.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, my standard raise is 3XBB, but upped at this table to try to maximize the profitability of loose calls. It was working till this last suck out. By the way, would have been in 2nd if won this confrontation, and feel would have had great shot to finish deep.

Yes he was calling w/ garbage before and hitting.

Could have bet 1/2 pot, but this person was not gonna laydown for any thing.

[woodguy]

A lot of tourney players protect their BB's by calling PF raises and then trying to outplay their opponent post-flop.

Yes his call stinks.

With your all in on the flop, he probably put you on overcards that whiffed. Now, he has a 9, and you probably wouldn't play a T that way (which is why its good to play a T that way sometimes)

He probably figures your massive overbet is a bluff, and calls, with what he thinks is the best hand right now.

He almost vomits when he sees your queens, but the poker gods smile upon him and give him the runner,runner flush.

You got him to commit his stack with the worse hand, good play.

Since the pot is 50% of your stack, I guess your bet isn't "a massive overbet", but probably the right play.

Take heart that bad beats are putting you out of tourneys. That means your are getting your chips in with the best of it, and it will pay off.

If you were constantly getting beat by better hands you would need to seriously ask if you should be playing this game.

SInce MLG hasn't responded I'll say it......cards happen.

Regards,
Woodguy

P.S. This is dangerously close to a bad beat post

[Prime Time]

Thanks,
against this type of oponent I will do the same, even w/ a T as you say because it doesn't look right to them.
Thats the beuty of getting these guys to call the all-ins, when they are wayyyyyyyyyyy behind.

[betgo]

You definately want to push on the flop. It is only a pot sized bet. It is unlikely your opponent has a ten. If he does, you bust out anyway. You don't want give a chance for an overcard to hit.

You got your money in way ahead. Your opponent hit the 12%.

Your opponent sounds like a real calling station, but he got lucky in this tournament.

[MLG]

Cards Happen, you want him to make both of those calls.

happy now woodyguy? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Cards Happen, you want him to make both of those calls.

happy now woodyguy?


[/ QUOTE ]

ahhhhhh....

all is now right with the world

Regards,
Woodguy

[MLG]

you will improve your game immensely if you stop thinking this way. rather try thinking that players like this are your bread and butter money time, and are just itching to give all their chips to you. Thats the truth, thats the important part, not the cards that end up saving him.